If you ask a serious politician what matters most you will eventually, after much flag-waving and God-appealing, get the answer: jobs for the young. Not make-belief government jobs but private sector jobs that transform lives in two generations as they have in Korea, Thailand, Malaysia, and in China as well as Turkey more recently.

So where is the money to create such jobs?

It takes a lot of investment to create the needed 1.5 million new jobs every year. To improve the quality of jobs, most of these will have to be in vibrant and internationally competitive manufacturing. How much investment depends on how efficiently we design projects and how much work they generate. A good guess is that we need an annual investment of 50 to 60 billion US dollars—twice as much as what we have now.

Also read: What do you believe in?

How do we pump an additional 20 billion US dollars annually into the economy to create the needed jobs, mostly in the private sector? Some of the money will have to be mobilized by the government. This is because private projects need public infrastructure: roads, railways, ports, and security. Also, the government spending on healthy and educated workers will be crucial for profitable private enterprise.

Where will the government money come from?

In the past, our government has mobilised money by taxing citizens, borrowing from future generations (debt) and, let’s admit it, groveling to rich countries (foreign aid). Realistically speaking, some debt and foreign assistance will still be needed but we can’t rely on these too much for sustained job creation.

There is thus no escaping the need to collect more tax revenue. Out of our population of 190 million, four million should pay taxes. But only about one million actually do. The government has to learn from tax administration in other countries to tax the money hidden here or stashed abroad. Let’s hope the coming budget will begin to tackle this.

But most of the money needed to create jobs will come from private investment. Foreign investment associated with the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC) – about 40 billion dollars over several years – facilitated by the two governments, will boost up private investment. But will CPEC generate enough employment? That depends on how well anchored the corridor investments are in Pakistan’s economy (and not just our geography).

Also read: CPEC—Corridor of power

Several questions need to be thought through. Are we planning to locate our industrial clusters close to the corridor? Are the industrial clusters supported by modern infrastructure? Are we skilling up our workers for employment in the projects coming up? Are the Chinese companies being encouraged to undertake joint ventures with local companies?

We also need to think beyond China. Are we allowing our private sector to spread its wings by linking up with other growth nodes across the borders – India, Iran, Central Asia – to maximise job creation in Pakistan? Are we removing policy, regulatory and security hurdles that stunt the private sector?

Lets start thinking seriously about these questions to ensure more and better jobs for Pakistanis.

The writer is an economist and a professor at Lahore University of Management Sciences.

I used to believe in all sorts of rubbish. Like the Earth being round and it revolving around the sun. I also believed things that I saw – but that too half because I was never sure if my eyes were not playing tricks on me. And I never believed most of what I heard from ordinary folks.

Things changed about ten years ago. I had walked up to the crest of the Makra peak in Kaghan and on the way back hitched a ride in a jeep with a bunch of Lahoris returning to Shogran. The leader – a Butt from Kashmiri Mohalla, who by Lahori aesthetics was handsome: tall, fat and fair-skinned – having ascertained that I had spent a few nights camping on the nearby Lake Saiful Muluk, was full of questions.

‘Do fairies really come to the lake at night?’ he asked, the very embodiment of earnestness. ‘Butt sahib, how old are you?’ was my response to the query.

The boy was twenty-eight.

For a moment, the light shone and everything changed for me. There I was in my mid-fifties having spent my life believing in rubbish that could only be informed by some silly thing called logic. And here was Butt, who had no such illusions. He believed in the fairies of Saiful Muluk because a so-called travel writer of the Urdu language said the lake was infested with them. This was like a twenty-eight-year-old in the West actually believing in Santa Claus and his reindeer-drawn flying sleigh because a lot of children believed in him.

Read more: Who feels safe in Pakistan?

I could have remained iffy about my new Butt-instilled belief system had I not shortly after met with this master haranguer outside Lahore Fort. Quoting from Scripture, he convinced me with a ten-minute lecture that the Earth was indeed flat. Everything else was a fib invented by the evil West to mislead pious people.

Seeing that I looked convinced, he went on to reveal that the Earth was also stationary. The proof: if it moved or spun there would be an endless windstorm whipping around us. And had I never spent an August night inside, say, Bhati or Lohari? There the air is so still and muggy that folks actually die of asphyxia without anyone strangling them, he said. Of course, the possibility of malicious djinns was always there.

I shook his hand and checked myself from kissing it, mainly because he had been scratching between his toes. But I came away fully convinced it is easier to believe in rubbish than good sense. And I now also believe that we are regularly visited by aliens and some of them even live among us. The latter wear wigs to hide their natural baldness and become politicians.

Salman Rashid is a Lahore-based travel writer. He tweets @odysseuslahori

“In the land of the pure, only the dead are safe.” This was going to be the entirety of my article, an offering at the altar of self-loathing, a slap in the face of the hopeful, and an expression of sheer disdain for the “500-word minimum” editorial brief. It would haunt your dreams, this searing sentence. It would force you to introspect and examine. It would wrap your makai in a warm protective embrace once this issue makes it to the kabari-waala.

But then I recalled the corpse-eating cannibals of Bhakkar and realised that the dead weren’t actually safe. Not really.

The next option was to write something like: “Only those who make others unsafe are safe”, which would then lead into a lament about how terrorists walk free and without a care. But then I thought about Osama and all the other Al-Qaeda terrorists who were either killed or "guantamoed" while in Pakistan. Local mass murderers haven’t fared too much better, what with Malik Ishaq and many of his ilk having accidentally, tragically cut off their heads while combing their hair. So that was out too, as are the Taliban. But wait! That only applies to the ‘bad’ Taliban of the TTP, right? The ‘Good’, ‘fair’ and ‘Just OK’ Taliban can still run around safely, right?

Also read: Republic of fear—Bigotry and blasphemy in Pakistan

That’s not really true either, not after Mullah Mansour. Look, it doesn’t matter what side of the border the missile was fired from. The point is he was in Pakistan and he wasn’t safe. Not even a little bit. Hell, he even reportedly went to Iran for medical treatment, which also points to how unsafe our hospitals are.

We can rule out Prime Ministers – both former and serving – and of course ministers and governors and even dictators flying in C-130s. The same applies to other government officials, police and military personnel – all of whom have been, and continue to be, targeted. Even our nuclear weapons seem to need more security than they actually provide.

But it is nevertheless true that you get more unsafe the closer you get to the margins of society. Minorities are generally more unsafe than the majority, and even within the majority you have to adjust for variation. Women are more unsafe than men and, proportionally speaking, transgender people are utterly unprotected. Geographical location and income also matters: a resident of Khyber Pakhtunkhwa is more likely to die in a terror attack than a resident of Sindh, for example. A man driving a bike is more in danger of police extortion, accidents and highway robbers than the man driving a Prado, and so on. Conversely, the Prado owner is more likely to be kidnapped for ransom, so that does even the scales somewhat. Suffice it to say that while we are all unsafe, some are more unsafe than others.

Zarrar Khuhro is a journalist and co-host of the TV talk show, *Zara Hut Kay. He tweets @ZarrarKhuhro*

On September 24, Dr Osama Siddique conducted a live online discussion about the Rimsha Masih case as well as other issues related to blasphemy laws. The discussion has been edited for space, clarity and grammar.

Photo courtesy LUMS

Q. Can you please explain the difference between the blasphemy law for Muslims and non-Muslims in Pakistan? Or is the same law applicable to both? – Ashfaq

OS. When we refer to the blasphemy laws in the current context, we more or less specifically refer to Section 295 (c) of the PPC which is about any blasphemy committed against the Holy Prophet. So while both Muslims and non-Muslims come under its ambit it is obviously a law that pertains to Muslim sensibilities. Sections 295-A and 298 of the PPC (which predate independence) protect the religious sensibilities of all faiths and prohibit the insult of any religion. These are the colonial anti-hate speech laws. Section 295 (c) was introduced despite the presence of these laws in our penal code.

When the case was first launched, did you think Rimsha would be awarded pre-trial bail, given that it has never happened before and that it is a non-bailable offence? – Imran

OS. No unfortunately I was not confident that Rimsha would be granted bail. And I say that in view of past cases where the policy lodged an F.I.R in similar fashion due to pressure from certain segments even though a fair investigation would have revealed that there was no merit to the allegation. What is unique in the Rimsha case is the revelation about the falseness of the allegation from another quarter and that too from Muslims. That is what finally provoked a reaction from the otherwise silent majority and the media and built some pressure to not just steam-roll this case like others and completely give in to the mob pressure. If this had not happened I am quite sure that Rimsha would not have been bailed. She is still far from being free

Q. Do you think the Rimsha Masih case is going to be used as a benchmark for future blasphemy cases? – Shahana

OS. I sincerely hope so. And the reason is that for the first time after a while we see some open questioning of Section 295 (c) as a mode for coercion, personal score settling and vigilantism. The fact that she is under-aged, possibly suffering from Downs’ syndrome and that the person behind it all has now been blamed by other Muslims, highlights how personal religious turf management or other political economy factors can motivate people to misuse this law. This is a tremendous opportunity to re-open the debate on this highly flawed law which we have to capitalize on

Q. Do you think it is possible to alter or repeal the blasphemy law over time? How can public sentiment be won? – R K Khan

OS. The politicians, civil society, academics and ulema have a cardinal role in this — one that they have acutely neglected in the past. We need to rapidly raise awareness that this is a man-made law by a dictator who was using Islam for political mileage. We need to highlight that there is no precedent of such a law in Islamic history or in other contemporary Islamic nations. We need to highlight aspects of humanity and forgiveness in the Prophet’s life and use religion to counter this distortion. We may have to move in a step-by-step fashion and first introduce some vital security nets in the law to save innocent people and deter those who misuse these laws. An outright repeal is unlikely and may not even be necessary

Q. How do you see an amendment to the blasphemy provisions of the PPC playing out after the 18th amendment, given that by virtue of Article 142(b) both the provincial assemblies and national assembly have jurisdiction in the area. Is the national assembly empowered to overrule a provincial assembly’s act to amend the Section 295? Or does 142(b) require a unanimous consent of the parliament and the provincial assembly? – Mustafa Ahmed

OS. That does create an obstacle and there is some ambiguity on that. Which is why there has to be a concerted effort to build a national consensus on thus by involving ulema from all sects and regions and thus bringing about identical changes to the law in the provinces. Whether we get the provinces to sign off on this or whether there is a federal legislation that ultimately drives the law everywhere in the same direction is a legal issue that can be remedied in more ways than one. But that is not the real issue. The real issue is how to procure the political will which in turn requires informing and changing the mood of the average citizen who is ill-informed, misguided and emotional

Q. Is it possible to pinpoint when the blasphemy law began to be used to marginalize non-Muslims? – Mustafa Ahmed

OS. My research clearly shows that it was only after Zia introduced Section 295 (c) that there was an escalation of complaints about blasphemy. This was not really the case before even though as I have mentioned earlier, there were colonial era laws that allowed for legal action for insulting one’s religious sentiments or insulting a religion. The primary reason for this is not just the ‘Islamization’ era politics and indoctrination but that Section 295 (c) is both very vaguely worded and hence allows for any direct or indirect imputation, innuendo and insinuation to be misread or falsely categorized as blasphemy. Furthermore, unlike the aforementioned laws it has no requirement of deliberate and malicious intent that required the police and court to ensure that nothing was taken seriously unless it had malicious deliberate intent motivating it. Add to this the growing misuse of Islam for a kind of obscurantist politics and you have an alchemy that creates the ideal milieu for misusing the law

Q. Can you tell us a brief detail about Rimsha’s legal proceedings? What is the next step for her? – Kamran F

OS. Well the latest development I believe is that the police investigation has revealed that the cleric involved in the case made false investigations. Also, that there is no evidence of blasphemy against Rimsha. If this is confirmed and constitutes the final investigative findings then there is really no case against her and the FIR ought o be withdrawn/quashed. And the cleric should be proceeded against. Let’s just hope there are no further twists

Q. Given that the task of procuring political will to amend the blasphemy law is likely to take time to culminate, do you think it is possible for there to be changes in criminal procedure to make it harder for cases like Rimsha Masih to occur? – S Quamber

OS. You have a point. Indeed in the past some administrative steps were taken to ensure that the initial police investigation is at a sufficiently high level and added attention and scrutiny ought to be extended to ensure no baseless FIRS are registered. It has not quite worked though. The mob pressure is simply too strong and the silent majority way too silent. So far it has only been the appellate courts that have saved various falsely implicated people in the past but then by that time there has been displacement, harassment and even loss of life through murders. The problem is that as drafted the law is simply too vague, all-encompassing and open to abuse and hence the necessary solution is to tweak it to make it just and fair and to require malicious intent. One other alternative is for the courts to consistently and as a matter of rigorous routine require intent and malice and to look for misuse. Many judges have done so in the past but there can be variations and we have also had zealous judges who were not only careless but even biased. And I am not sure the current judicial leadership is really sensitive to this issue. So legal amendment is the first and foremost option and if not that then some clear judicial understanding to expedite such cases and carefully expose any misuse.

Q. Given the Rimsha is underage, if her case had proceeded forward, under the blasphemy law, what punishment would she have been given? — Rani

OS. The age factor would surely have been a huge consideration and I don’t at all think that she would have been sentenced to death. By the way, as a matter of record, no one has been hanged for a blasphemy conviction in Pakistan to date. People have either been set free or have languished behind bars or have been killed on the way to court/in jail or have sought and gotten amnesty abroad. Also, we ought to remember that making death penalty mandatory was only a subsequent Shariat Court ruling and I could also foresee the current court possibly revisiting it. So in a nutshell if Rimsha were found guilty at the highest levels of the court (which I think would have been very, very unlikely given her age and the spuriousness of the case) she would have possibly received some kind of reduced jail term

Q. We generally hear about the blasphemy law being used against minority communities. Yet analysts say that in terms of actual conviction, more Muslims have been affected by this than any other community in Pakistan. Would you care to comment on that? – Curious Pakistani

OS. Well here are the stats based on an analysis of blasphemy cases from 1960 to 2007. Roughly 35 % of the total reported cases (reported in law journals as they were cleared by appellate judges to be fit for reporting as they entailed an important legal point) pertained to Christians and Ahmedis. So while more Muslims were implicated, that is quite a high per centage of non-Muslims (as defined by the Constitution) given the much, much smaller size of their population. So minorities do get implicated much more on a proportional basis. Having said that, the motivations behind implicating someone is such a case can be other than religious. Will, marital, property or political disputes are also recorded to have misused this law and hence the cases against so many Muslims.

Q. In your opinion, do you think there was any local media pressure or international media pressure on the government? Is that why she was released on bail? Or was it simply because of her age? – Lydia

OS. Like anywhere in the world, governments and courts have an ear out for public opinion and gauge the mood of different more empowered groups in society. The expose of the cleric who was the major factor behind her implication and the fact that this expose was discussed and the said person castigated by the media, many ulema and religious parties, important journalists and opinion-makers as well as politicians had a major impact in drawing attention to the laws’ misuse. I guess for many this was the first time that they seriously thought about the issue. Much as he is unpopular amongst many, the President of the country is one politician who has consistently spoken about this and other exploitative laws but this time others with far greater leanings towards the right were also forced to do so. The international media always picks up on such issues and that has some impact. But I think that domestic pressure played a greater part as it always ought to but seldom does.

Q. The Akhtar Hameed Khan case is one tragic example of victimization under the blasphemy law. Do you think it resulted from a certain carelessness of language on the part of the poet/writer A. H Khan or were there political reasons for bringing charges against him? Even when a person is acquitted, as he was, was the accuser who brought the charges against him ever made to pay for making an elderly man go through the travails of ‘court kutchery’ during his illness? – Khasta

OS. I am strongly of the considered view that the highly flawed and vague language of the law makes it an ideal tool for mischief and abuse. Akhtar hameed Khan’s tragic case was no different. So problematic is the way in which the law has been drafted that one can’t even conceivably have a perfectly respectful and academic discussion on religious themes without the apprehension that someone cannot twist one’s words and accuse one of blasphemy. So it is also a great impediment to free and academic speech. By the time an innocent person presents a defense, the flawed law and weak police and court systems ensure that you have already suffered a lot of harassment and possibly even greater harm

OS. Thank you everyone for your very considered and meaningful questions. I hope I was able to address them adequately. If you need more clarifications please search on the internet for research that I have done in this area and you will be able to easily find it. And please keep raising your voices against this highly problematic law.

Paul Marshall is senior fellow at the Hudson Institute’s Center for Religious Freedom. His areas of expertise are religious freedom, religion and politics and Islam and human rights. For eight years, he has been a senior fellow at the Freedom House’s Centre for Religious Freedom. Marshall has taught political science, law, philosophy and theology at different universities and authored and edited over 20 books including Silenced: How Apostasy and Blasphemy Codes Are Choking Freedom Worldwide, published in 2011.

Paul Marshall conducted a live online discussion with the Herald and its readers about the Rimsha Masih case as well as other issues related to blasphemy laws. The discussion has been edited for space, clarity and grammar.

Q. Could you please tell us about blasphemy laws in the West? What countries have them weaved into their law and how are they implemented? — Asif

PM. Most western countries do not have explicit blasphemy laws, and those that remain usually have not been used for the last fifty years. There were occasional recent blasphemy cases in Russian and Poland. What many western countries do have is ‘hate speech’ laws, and these are being used a quasi-blasphemy laws

Q. What are the similarities and differences between Pakistan’s blasphemy laws and those in other countries? — Iqbal

PM. The western laws try to avoid blasphemy questions as such — they focus on protecting people, not religions per se. People may be prosecuted for saying things that are insulting or liable to lead to discrimination against Muslims themselves, not against Islam. However, the boundary easily gets blurred — recently a man in England was sentenced to a two year prison term for burning a Quran. In Pakistan, the laws are explicitly focused on words etc that are thought to be against Islam itself, not Muslims per se. But in both cases, the law can be very vague.

Q. From your vast experience and understanding, do you think most blasphemy laws are fair? — Sharif

PM. I think the laws are very unfair. Together with my colleague Nina Shea, we recently published a book Silenced (Oxford University Press, 2011) that includes a worldwide survey of how such laws (and private accusations) are used. The laws vary from country to country, and between regions in counties, and over time. Most of those accused are Muslims, and they are usually accused not because they have actually blasphemed or insulted, but because they have disagreed with some other interpretation of Islam

Q. You said that there was recently a man in England was sentenced to a two year prison term for burning a Quran. Was this under English law? Hate speech law? Can you please tell me more about this incident? — Jahanzeb

PM. I won’t check the details now since time is short but the charge was under English law, but not a hate speech law per se, it was a general ‘public order’ offense whereby someone can be charged for doing something that upsets the public order and might lead to violence. In England one can also be arrested for “anti-social behaviour’ These laws are also vague.

Q. In your opinion, what is a practical solution to resolve blasphemy related issues? — Anam

PM. I believe that having laws and carrying out physical attacks against people accused of blasphemy makes the situation worse. Brian Grim and Roger Finke have a very good book The Price of Freedom Denied: Religious Persecution and Conflict in the 21st Century, which shows that the more you have state/government controls on religion, the more religious violence there will be. Attempted controls on blasphemy lead to more violence. Also, it is only since there has been publicity about and attempts to punish people in the West that burn Qurans or are accused of insulting Islam, that the number of incidents has increased. I don’t think there were any such incidents at all before a few years ago. Nobody would have thought of doing so. I think we have to move away from legal controls and stress good education and mutual understanding

Q. My question is a little off the topic but does pertain to it given the current situation in the Muslim World. As far as my knowledge goes, there is a fine line between freedom of speech and hate speech, and like you said there are laws in the West that pertain to hate speech. Do you think that the documentary that has created a stir in all over the Muslim world leans more towards freedom of speech or hate speech? Especially when there are such huge restrictions over talking about holocaust then why are there no restrictions in offending someone’s faith especially if the law states that all faiths are to be respected? Could you elaborate more on this please? — Obaid

PM. Let me first state my own view that freedom of speech includes freedom to engage in hateful speech. I am opposed to the hate speech laws one finds in many western countries. I think they make the situation worse, and help contribute to violence e.g. as with Anders Breivik in Norway. I am also opposed to laws that ban holocaust denial, or denial of Armenian genocide etc. I don’t think such laws help the situation. They simply publicize people who should be ignored or shunned. They certainly don’t stop people saying and thinking things. I think this recent video trailer seems to be very insulting (I haven’t seen it, and don’t plan to) but I think it should be legal. The events of the last few weeks have given it publicity

Q. As far as the Rimsha Masih case goes, what is the international opinion on it? — Junaid

PM. Of course, I can’t speak for everybody internationally, but the case drew a lot of attention internationally because the situation was so stark. A young girl with development problems, who might not have known what she was doing, even if she were guilty under the law, and then the issue compounded by accusation that an imam had faked the evidence. I think this lead to more attention, and international condemnation of the laws, and the way they are carried out, than anything since the killings of Salman Tazeer and Shabbaz Bhatti. This view is widespread – not just in the west – I have spend most of the last month in Indonesia, and many Muslims there are outraged by what happens under Pakistan’s blasphemy laws.

Q. Do blasphemy/hate speech cases get as much media coverage in other countries as they do in Pakistan? I feel that the Pakistani media hypes these cases in an insensitive manner. What is your opinion about this? — Maliha Q

PM. In the Muslim-majority world, such cases get a lot of attention. Indonesia does not have many such cases but when they occur, there is a lot of coverage. Similar situation is there in Egypt and many other places. I think that in many places the media hypes it, and tries to incite anger. Radicals also try to get people worked up. In the west there is a similar pattern. When Terry Jones, an unknown pastor in Florida with a tiny congregation said he would burn a Quran, he became a centre of media attention in America and the world, and he had American cabinet ministers phoning him, which was precisely what he wanted. Last year he actually did burn a Quran, but most people just ignored him. If he is ignored, he will stop.

Q. You said that Muslims in Indonesia are outraged by what happens under Pakistan’s blasphemy laws. Can you tell us a bit about their blasphemy laws so we can have a comparison in our minds? — Maliha Q

PM. Article 156(a) of the Indonesia penal code states that whoever “expresses a view or commits an act that principally disseminates hatred, misuses or defames a religion recognized in Indonesia, face at maximum five years imprisonment.” Hence the law (which is not used much) has a ‘hate speech’ element, and it also applies to all of the country’s six recognized religions. Also the penalties are less (in Pakistan, as you know, there can be, in principle, the death penalty) so the law is more general, and milder, than Pakistan (I am still opposed to it though). It has been used against Ahmadis, and now also against Shia, and there have recently been killings of Shia. The law, like many others tends to expand to cover a wider range of people, and also, I think, tends to encourage violence by others

Q. How does one define what qualifies as hate speech and what doesn’t? Who is supposed to be the judge for it? — Dilawar

PM. I think it is very difficult to define it, it always gets subjective. In the west the judges define it but the definition remains vague. I think the laws should be dropped. I think people should be banned from ‘incitement to violence’ but otherwise free to speak. I think the question of violence, not hatred, should be the standard

On August 18, Saturday, the Herald invited Tanvir Ahmad Khan to a live online discussion on how the supply route reopening may reshape the frayed ties between Washington and Islamabad. The discussion has been edited for space, clarity and grammar.

Comment From Bakhtiar. Why do you think it took so long for the US to apologise for the Salala incident?

Tanvir Ahmad Khan. Quite honestly, the US “apology” was deliberately delayed and finally delivered in only a partial manner. It was difficult for President Obama to apologise in the election year.

Comment From Ansar. Tanvir Ahmad Khan: Do you think it was morally and politically correct for the Pakistani government to close down the Nato trade routes for eight months?

TAK. Pakistan had little choice after the Salala incident. Public opinion was far too enraged to avoid a strong measure.

Comment From Shereyar. In your opinion, how far has the disruption of Nato supplies led to a disruption in the actual relationship between the USA & Pakistan? More specifically, have the events of the last 8-9 months led to any serious introspection, on the part of the Pakistani establishment; about its involvement in the War on Terror while simultaneously pursuing strategic depth in the region by supporting certain militant groups?

TAK. It would not have taken eight months if Washington had given Islamabad a face saving opportunity. Washington decided to play hard ball. Pakistan-US relations have been under strain for at least two years. There are multiple reasons for it. Salala would not have happened if the relations were better. Nor would Pakistan take such an extreme measure as cutting off the supply route. There is introspection but not the will to see it through.

Comment From Bakhtiar. Rumour has it that the Taliban wanted the trade routes opened, because they were suffering economical losses when it shut down. Do you think this is true?

TAK. I doubt if the Taliban played a role in either shutting down the route or in the re-opening of it. But they do extract considerable sums of money from Afghan and Nato contractors once the trucks enter Afghanistan.

Comment From A Vetta. Now, after the mess US has made, even this withdrawal is unlikely to bring peace to the regions. I am saddened to note that the Pak Army is losing control over the people it trained for Jihad in Afghanistan. What is your opinion?

TAK. It seems Washington has given up the objective of restoring total peace. It will accept relative instability and some fighting as long as it can get and retain military bases in Afghanistan. Pakistan lost control of Jihadis of the Afghanistan or Kashmir vintage a long time ago. The TTP harbours hundreds of them who turned against the Pakistani state after General Musharraf decided to turn away from them.

Comment From Hamid Raza. You say in response to a question above that an adverse public opinion forced the Government of Pakistan to close NATO supply routes. Do you think the recent opening of the supply routes was allowed because the public opinion in Pakistan had changed in any way better for the NATO?

TAK. No. The public opinion had not changed. The Pakistan government had run out of options and was finding it difficult to deny supplies to all the Nato/Isaf countries. It tried to get a good bargain but did not succeed. Basically all that it got was that the Americans released $ 1.1. Billion that belonged to Pakistan as reimbursement of expenditure already incurred but were frozen by Washington.

Comment From Beena. America needs to understand that its foreign policy has significant weaknesses. Americans have pretty much left their fate into the hands of security establishment. Do you think this is a grave mistake?

TAK. America needs to reassess the policies formulated by neo-conservatives under George Bush. Obama has tried to bring about changes but on several issues backed off because of various pressures e.g. the Jewish lobby about the policy on Arab-Israel affairs, pursuit of peace in Afghanistan where he is attempting disengagement after first sanctioning and trying out a big surge of troops. He has not turned out to be an effective leader of change in foreign and security policies.

Comment From Ali. Whatever happened was good in a sense that the economic conditions of the people were grinding to a halt and they were in great need economic ease. It seems that the US has stuck herself badly because they will not be able to change their policy of drone attacks as long as they receive casualties at the hands of Taliban. Where do you see all this heading from here?

TAK. The release of frozen Coalition Support Funds has made things better for the government. But is a very brief respite as Pakistan has to make a large debt re-payment to IMF very soon and the Foreign Exchange reserves are dwindling in spite of remittances by overseas Pakistanis (estimated at $13 billion for the latest year). Moreover the government may spend the money on measures that enable it garner support for the next election but which are economically unsound.

Comment From Shamim Haider. I think Pakistan sold itself very cheap. They could have bargained for more. At this point it is a total loss-loss situation for Pakistan. Do you think we could have bargained for more?

TAK. Pakistan’s bargaining tactics floundered against the rock of American rejection. It needs much better diplomacy. Also the Americans knew they could count on a lobby in Pakistan that wanted an end to the suspension of routes without extracting a price. In the end it was just about the best that Pakistan could have got. Further delay would not have helped.

Comment From Ali. Moreover, which Taliban are being targeted in Waziristan by the US if it is believed that those in Waziristan pose greater threat to Pakistan than to US. Is US attacking friendly Taliban or some special anti-US groups?

TAK. The US wants to degrade the power of all insurgent groups that are likely to keep up the fight against a government in Kabul that gives them permanent bases. They believe the Haqqani group – mainly Oushtin tribes from eastern provinces with common border with FATA are ideologically more hostile to their future plans. They do not want to deploy too many troops in these provinces as they would suffer heavy casualties. They demand that Pakistanshould share the battle against the Haqqani group. Since the peace process has been abysmally slow, Afghanistan is heading for more turmoil for years to come. Pakistan may get the blow back too.

Comment From Ayesha Alam. What in your opinion has caused the worst patch of relationships between Pak and the US? The Nato supply routes being shut down or OBL killing? Or have things been even worse in the past?

TAK. The two factors mentioned by you aggravated an already tense situation. Basically, relations have gone wrong because Pakistani and American objectives in Afghanistan beyond 2014 are at variance. The role that Washington wishes to assign to India in post-2014 Afghanistan has been a major irritant. Internally the raising of a huge Afghan army with much of the officer corps drawn from non-Pushtun minorities, especially Tajiks is, viewed with suspicion in Pakistan.

Comment From Qamar Sohail. According to news reports, the president of the Nato Oil Tankers Association, Nasir Khan said that not a single oil tanker or container had crossed the Torkham border into Afghanistan until July 9 and only a handful of containers had reached Afghanistan via the Chaman border in Quetta. Why do you think this is so?

TAK. The flow of supplies has not reached an optimum level. There are security issues that have not as yet found an agreement between Pakistan and the United States. We may see increased attacks on trucks etc. Pakistan does not seem to have the means to stop them. This will keep on raising controversies.

Comment From Sarfaraz. Do you think anyone benefited from the closing of the Nato supply? If yes, who were the parties that benefited and who were the parties that lost out?

TAK. Nobody seems to have gained much. The closure was a desperate response to a series of issues: the Abbotabad episode, the continued drone attacks and finally the Salala attack that would have sent a wave of indignation in the army. Washington spent 6 to 10 times more on supplies through Russia and Central Asia. Pakistan got a bad name in the Western world. It was a sorry affair.

Comment From A Vetta. People do not like foreign troops in their land. President Bush Senior did the right thing by getting out of Iraq after the first Iraq war. His son decided to stay and look what is happening in Iraq. The only sane policy for the USA is to get out leaving a few thousand well equipped soldiers in Afghanistan to deter foreign adventurers. What do you think?

TAK. There was a fundamental difference. Bush Jr. embarked upon a mission to re-configure the broader Middle East. He had not visualised that resistance would last for years and virtually destroy the project. We have a mess in the region.

TAK. Thank you so much. Best wishes and Good Bye.

On August 16, Thursday, the Herald invited Dr Marvin Weinbaum to a live online discussion about how the supply route reopening may reshape frayed ties between Washington and Islamabad. The discussion has been edited for space, clarity and grammar.

Comment From A Vetta. People do not like foreign troops in their land. President Bush Senior did the right thing by getting out of Iraq after the first Iraq war. His son decided to stay and look what is happening in Iraq. The only sane policy for the USA is to get out leaving a few thousand well equipped soldiers in Afghanistan to deter foreign adventurers. What do you think?

Dr Marvin Weinbaum. That the US and NATO should not have an indefinite military commitment in Afghanistan is precisely where American policy is presently. By the end of 2014, the US is likely to have about 20,000 troops remaining in largely non-combat roles. This will be important for maintaining the morale and cohesion of the Afghan security forces. The departure of large numbers of ISAF troops is expected to deal with the fact that Afghans have lost patience with foreign forces on their soil.

Comment From Shereyar. Why do you think it took the US so long to apologise for the Salala incident?

Dr Marvin Weinbaum. The conclusion of the US military’s investigation was that both sides were to blame for the events at Salala. When spokespersons in Pakistan suggested that attack was deliberate, it made it difficult for an American administration to buy into this scenario. Even so, an agreement was in hand earlier in the year but Pakistan’s foreign minister asked that it be delayed by a couple of weeks. Shortly after, there was the attack in Kabul on the US embassy that Washington traced to the Haqqani Network. At this point, it became particularly difficult in this election year for the US to issue a straight-out apology. Also, if public feelings in Pakistan about the incident were not running so high, it would have been easier for Islamabad to compromise on the wording.

Comment From Ansar. Do you think it was morally, ethically and politically correct of the Pakistan government to impose a ban on Nato supplies?

Dr Marvin Weinbaum. Pakistan has always held out the possibility of closure on the border crossing as leverage in negotiating with the US. The decision to do so was probably unavoidable in light of the high degree of public anger in Pakistan over Salala and Abbottabad—fueled by the military and media. Islamabad no doubt expected that with such strong popular backing and given the importance of the supply routes that it could drive a hard bargain and that the the US would be forced to settle on Pakistan’s terms. The surprise to everyone, including people in the US, was the American willingness to use the far more expensive northern routes, thus giving it a strong bargaining position.

Comment From Haider Naqvi. In your opinion, how far has the disruption of NATO supplies led to a disruption in the actual relationship between the USA & Pakistan? More specifically, have the events of the last 8-9 months led to any serious introspection, on the part of the Pakistani establishment; about its involvement in the War on Terror while simultaneously pursuing “strategic depth” in the region by supporting certain militant groups. Similarly, has the US reviewed its policy of engagement with elements of the Pakistani state whose paranoid focus on national security has been detrimental to American interests? Was there an opportunity within this morass to reconfigure Pak-US ties and was this opportunity squandered or do you see a considerable shift having taken place?

Dr Marvin Weinbaum. The developments over past 18 months has obviously sharply set back US-Pakistan relations and led to reassessments on both sides. There has developed perhaps a more realistic understanding of where the national interests of both countries in fact diverge and overlap. Gone are some of our illusions about a full, trusting partnership. Yet, out of this, greater realism may emerge on the War on Terror that while narrow in scope can lead to real cooperation. Pakistan and the US are increasingly on the same page in wanting to see a stable Afghanistan and in understanding the dangers of a Taliban ascendance. Pakistan probably no longer believes in strategic depth in the sense that it could have a pliant Kabul government. It would settle for having a regime in Kabul that was at least not unfriendly, that is, too close to India. Today strategic depth is a useful term only in talking how Taliban insurgencies in Afghanistan and Pakistan could reinforce one another should the border effectively disappear.

Comment From Husain Naqvi. What problems does the US govt face when dealing with the Pakistani government regarding the Afghan issue? What are the greatest obstacles?

Dr Marvin Weinbaum. Many of the problems that US face with Pakistan over Afghanistan will lessen once the US military presence in Afghanistan is reduced. Without the supply need, the US will have less dependence on Pakistan, and Pakistan will not have the US to blame for many of its home-grown problems. In the end this will be a healthier relationship. For the time being it may be that the greatest obstacle to better relations is the sanctuary that Afghan insurgent groups find in Pakistan. There is deep resentment in the US over the fact that its troops are being killed by forces that move easily across the border. Unfortunately, there is less understanding of the obstacles that Pakistan faces in trying to prevent infiltration. But this could be largely overcome if it were felt that Pakistan has the political will to deal with all of its militant extremist groups.

Dr Marvin Weinbaum. Due to time constraints I now have to leave. It was great talking to you all. Thank you. Have a good night.

On July 21, Saturday, the Herald invited Asma Jahangir for a live online discussion about the political theory behind contempt of court. The discussion was edited for space, clarity and grammar.

Comment from Sultan. Can you explain to me what exactly contempt of court mean?

Asma Jahangir. Contempt of court has several angles to it. It makes the administration of justice effective and should not be used, unless in extreme cases for the protection of reputation of judges or for criticizing them

Comment From Habib. Last month, the contempt of court law was passed. How does this change Pakistan’s judicial and political landscape?

Asma Jahangir. There are some worrying aspects of it that are wider than just protecting the judiciary. It gives immunity to a large number of public office holders from being proceeded under contempt. It stalls contempt proceedings till the basic matter in court is not decided upon. It gives courts powers to prohibit publishing of proceedings held in camera and has done away with one year limitation on scandalization of judges. Also the area covering criticism of the judiciary or its decisions are not wide enough

Comment From M. Ibrahim. I feel that the CJP can do anything. He makes political speeches on a daily basis. He has already expressed his opinion on Contempt Law and threatened to strike it down before the case has come up for hearing. What is your opinion on this?

Asma Jahangir. The political landscape is altered as earlier the judiciary was showing its muscles-rightly or wrongly- now the parliament has also taken up the challenge. Only the people will suffer and the democratic process will be further undermined.

Comment From Jamal. Madam Asma, you fought to have the present CJ reinstated. What is the issue now? How have things changed so much since the lawyers’ movement which was not so long ago?

Asma Jahangir. The CJ, I am afraid, is acting more like a autocratic politician rather than a dignified judge.

Comment From Raza Abdullah. We need radical surgery to get rid of the rotten institutions of our country and somebody needs to take a stand against this mayhem. In my view, all extra-Constitutional actions, barring martial law, are valid to bring the country back from the death throes. What is your opinion?

Asma Jahangir. My answer to Jamal and Abdullah. Jamal much has changed. At least the judiciary is not intimidated by the political government. They were not in the past too. Asma Jilani case, Nawaz Sharif and Sajad Ali Shah debacle and Nasim Hasan Shah remained acting CJ during Benazir government but some judges were intimidated. It is now a populist judiciary. The bar is being divided and used by the government and the CJ. Discussions on the Supreme Court in the bar is shouted down by a few who are favored by the judiciary. It is now very openly done. The question is fundamental. Do we believe in electoral politics or not? do we trust the will of the people or not? do we have the capacity to convince people or not or should we depend on a few “geniuses” to run the place for us?

Comment From Aalee. Will SC Strike Down the contempt bill on 23 rd July?

Asma Jahangir. Aalee not on 23 but later

Comment From Raza Wazir. My Q from Asma Jahangir Sahba is that whether she sees the intense political machination and dependence of political parties on judiciary to resolve their issues and set off their scores through judiciary as the cause of excessive contempt of court notices?

Asma Jahangir. The judiciary, I wish, was the solution but it is not

Comment From Shuja Haider. Does the Supreme Court have the authority to remove an elected representative on contempt of court? I thought the SC worked as a subordinate of federal government. Was I misguided? Can a judge remove a person who once selected the judge himself for his job?

Asma Jahangir. The judiciary is not subordinate but an autonomous constitutional body. It cannot throw a PM out as only the Election Commissioner could have done it. Similarly the parliament cannot throw a judge out. In the past only the Supreme Judicial council could dismiss a judge but this restored judiciary has dismissed judges too. Unlike common perception most of the thrown out judges were not PCO but took a Constitutional oath under a defacto CJ. Here too distinction was made between them.

Comment from Freddy. If criticising politicians is free speech, why is criticising the judiciary “contempt”?

Asma Jahangir. Judiciary has a special place. It is nominated and runs on its moral authority. If allowed to be wildly criticized at random it could lose its sanctity. However, the modern concept is that judges are most responsible for maintaining their image. No self respecting judge will use contempt so frequently as our judges do. Contempt law has been instrumental in dismissal of Supreme and High court judges, the Pm, several lawyers received notices of contempt and government officials are daily threatened by it.

Comment From Aysha. What do think will happen next in this battle between the judiciary and the government? Will one come out a winner or will they both end up destroying each other?

Asma Jahangir. Both end up destroying themselves. Already have. Just running on props.

Comment From Riaz. Do you think there was an alternate before executive other than contempt of court act 2012 to stop the advancement of CJP?

Asma Jahangir. No. The Cj must realize that he cannot expect to fight with all claws out while the other should stick to the game and defend with hands and feet tied.

Comment From Moonis. Madam what is your opinion about the petition filed by Hamid Mir and Absar Aalim? Is it not waste of time and involving SCP in futile matters?

Asma Jahangir. Yes, asking someone to discipline you. Why not do it yourself

Comment From Shinawar. Madam to empower senate of Pakistan as the impeachment institution of CJP and other Judges of SCP and HCs not the need of hour and and a balancing act?

Asma Jahangir. Let us not get carried away. We need a judiciary that is free of pressures from the politicians. A better way would be to expand the Supreme Judicial Council.

Comment From Mansoor. What is your opinion about Indian Judge Justice Katju’s remarks about the SCP decision to send the PM Home?

Asma Jahangir. They are his remarks. I do not fully agree but a number of International jurists have strongly criticised the frequent use of suo motu powers of the Supreme Court

Comment From Fouzia. I do not understand. If there is a contempt of court law which can force a prime minister to resign, then why is there no contempt of court law for the parliament? I would think that parliamentarians need it much more. What do you think?

Asma Jahangir. There is. Under the Constitution as amended by Zia a Parliamentarian can get disqualified for ridiculing judiciary and armed forces. Read Article 63 of the Constitution. Quite unique in our Constitution and this should have been repealed in the 18th Amendment

Comment From Muhammad Faryad. What do you think is the role of lawyers to tame down the judiciary now? Should there be another lawyers’ movement now to tell the SC that if lawyers can stand against a military dictator, they can also stand against a judicial dictator?

Asma Jahangir. Lawyers should remain neutral but leaders of the bar can play a positive role by having a positive engagement with judges. Unfortunately, the jannisari lawyers have a lot to lose if the judiciary got independent of the lawyers.

Comment From Muhammad Faryad. While many liberals are bashing SC and its Judges for their supposed judicial-overreach and most of the conservatives are dreaming of the day when the court ousts the President of the Islamic Republic for shepherding an the government, what side (SC or Gov.) do you think has the potential to do more lasting-damage to the prospects of a prosperous future of this beleaguered country? A government that is setting an example of defying courts or a court that is becoming an executive?

Asma Jahangir. Both in equal measure but the sad causality will be of the process of democratic transition.

Comment From Riaz. Madam is it not a violation of Article 248 to write a letter to Swiss authorities, this being one of the easily interpreted articles of the Constitution?

Asma Jahangir. There are many sides to this argument. The President (any) has immunity and no court has ruled otherwise. On the other hand a letter and an apology is destroying the growth of the country. as far as I am concerned let the letter be written. Politically PPP supporters do argue that all the accountability is singularly targeted at them. Let us also face it that the Sc is not insisting on it because they are allergic to corruption but because of who the target is.

On July 21, Saturday, the Herald invited Feisal Naqvi for a live online discussion about the political theory behind contempt of court. Following is an edited version of the discussion.

Sultan: Can you explain to me what exactly does contempt of court mean?

FN: There are different types of contempt. One type of contempt means to be rude to a judge; for example, by calling him names. Another type of contempt is to refuse to obey a court order.

Habib: Last month, the contempt of court law was passed. How does this change Pakistan’s judicial and political landscape?

FN: The new law does two things that I am aware of. The more important thing is that it says that the President, the PM and Federal Ministers will not be liable for contempt if they are doing something which they think is part of their official duties. The second thing is that the new law changes the process of determining contempt and makes it slower.

M Ibrahim: I feel that the CJP can do anything. He makes political speeches on a daily basis. He has already expressed his opinion on Contempt Law and threatened to strike it down before the case has come up for hearing. What is your opinion on this?

FN: The CJP is bound by law like everybody else. I have not heard him express his opinion that clearly on the contempt law (and I would be surprised if he had said something like that). Quite often, stuff like this gets misreported or misinterpreted

Muhammad Faryad: While many liberals are bashing SC and its Judges for their supposed judicial-overreach and most of the conservatives are dreaming of the day when the court ousts the President of the Islamic Republic for shepherding an the government, what side (SC or Gov.) do you think has the potential to do more lasting-damage to the prospects of a prosperous future of this beleaguered country? A government that is setting an example of defying courts or a court that is becoming an executive?

FN: Both options are not good. However, a government that seeks to insulate itself from judicial oversight is fundamentally more dangerous. The “judicial overreach” is slowing down and will taper off. but if our laws recognise that executive officials are untouchable, then we have a much bigger problem.

Muhammad Faryad: What do you think is the role of lawyers to tame down the judiciary now? Should there be another lawyers’ movement now to tell the SC that if lawyers can stand against a military dictator, they can also stand against a judicial dictator?

FN: I think lawyers need to concentrate on their professional obligations and leave politics to the political parties. the 2007-2008 lawyers movement was a unique event and it would be better if it was kept that way. So far as the judiciary is concerned, it is quite sensitive to what the lawyers think but that is not necessarily such a good thing. The lawyer’s community likes to think of itself as the saviour of this country and that can cause people to think that they can act as they please. this in turn leads to individual lawyers misbehaving with state authorities which is also not a good thing. So, the best thing is for lawyers to channel their political feelings into political parties and not use law as a battleground for politics.

Freddy: If criticising politicians is free speech, why is criticising the judiciary “contempt”?

FN: Politicians and judges have very different roles. Judges don’t get to defend themselves the way politicians do because politicians get to answer back. Judges have to sit quietly and listen to criticism. In consideration for this fact, societies agree that judges need to be treated with some degree of deference. The issue though is to what degree. many of our older provisions about “scandalising” the judiciary come from a colonial era where deference to the state was a much bigger deal. These types of offences are not really enforced in the rest of the world where people freely criticise the judiciary. At the same time, Pakistani courts have — at least over the past few years — not been particularly sensitive in this regard. people say all sorts of stuff about the courts and judges and 99% of the time, judges say or do nothing. What is at stake in the NRO case is not freedom of speech or ridiculing the judiciary, but the fact that the government simply doesnot want to obey a direct order of the S Ct.

Raza Wazir: My Q is that whether Mr Naqvi sees the intense political machination and dependence of political parties on judiciary to resolve their issues and set off their scores through judiciary as the cause of excessive contempt of court notices?

FN: Not really. Most of the contempt hullaballoo has to do with one case — the NRO case. There have been other instances as well, perhaps more than in the past, but that is because we have such an active (and activist) court. However, but for the NRO issue, no one would care about the contempt laws.

Aalee: Do you think the SC will strike down the contempt bill on 23 rd July?

FN: The Sc will not strike down the whole act; at best, certain provisions will get struck down. the one provision which is most likely to get struck down is the provision giving immunity from contempt to the PM, the President and ministers. That provision is clearly unconstitutional (at least so far as I can see). this is because there is a separate contempt provision in the Constitution, and I don’t see how that constitutional provision can be negated through an act. laws which are contrary to the constitution are invalid. Sorry, there is a separate provision in the Constitution dealing with contempt (Art 204).

Shuja Haider: Does the Supreme Court have the authority to remove an elected representative on contempt of court? I thought the SC worked as an sub-ordinate of federal government. Was I misguided? Can a judge remove a person who once selected the judge himself for him job?

FN: Woah, multiple issues there. First, the SC is not a subordinate of (or subordinate to) the Federal Government. The judiciary as a whole is one of the three branches of government (judiciary, legislature, executive). In terms of removing (or disqualifying) an elected representative, the situation is somewhat complicated. Art 63 of the Const seems to indicate that any question regarding disqualification has to be referred to the Chief Election Commissioner by the Speaker. However, in YRG’s case, once the Speaker refused, the SC went further and decided that YRG was disqualified and did not refer the matter to the CEC. That non-referral to the CEC is debatable.

Fouzia: I do not understand. If there is a contempt of court law which can force a prime minister to resign, then why is there no contempt of court law for the parliament? I would think that parliamentarians need it much more. What do you think?

FN: There is a contempt of court law for everyone, including parliament. If an MNA is found guilty of ridiculing the judiciary, then that MNA would be disqualified too (just like YRG).

Aysha: What do think will happen next in this battle between the judiciary and the government? Will one come out a winner or will they both end up destroying each other?

FN: I’m not sure, but I’m worried. This new law is cleary unconstitutional and should be struck down, at least to the extent that it seeks to give immunity from contempt to the PM etc. At the same time, I think the SC should quit flogging a dead horse and inform the Swiss authorities itself. The current impasse only serves to embroil the SC in politics. You now have a situation where supporters of one party openly campaign against the judiciary, and that is really sad. The judiciary should not be so politicised.

Moonis: What is your opinion about the petition filed by Hamid Mir and Absar Aalim? Is it not waste of time and involving SCP in futile matters?

FN: Yes. I wish people would stop filing petitions like this one. This is the job of the government, not of the SC. In any event, there already is a federal body charged with oversight of the media (PEMRA).

Riaz: To write a letter to Swiss authorities is a violation of Article 248? This is one of the easy-to-interpret articles of the Constitution.

FN: No. Writing a letter to the Swiss will not violate Art 248. All that the letter needs to say is that the earlier letter written in 2008 was illegal. If the PPP wants, it can add that Asif Zardari is the president now and hence cannot be prosecuted in Switzerland. but simply telling the Swiss that the SC declared the 2008 letter to be illegal is not a violation of Art 248. Also, please note that the PPP has never relied on Art 248 before the SC. it only mentions 248 on tv.

Farhan J: How does this work in other countries? Do they also have contempt of court laws?

FN: I can’t speak for all countries. But certainly the US and the UK and India have contempt laws. And I would image that all countries whose legal system is based upon the common law of England will have contempt laws.

Kohari M: The fact that our prime minister was convicted for contempt and then removed from office — are there any international precedents? Has this happened elsewhere in the world?

FN: I don’t know of any other instances where a PM has been disqualified for contempt. But i do think there are instances where heads of government have been removed by court decisions (though I am not sure). You may also want to consider whether there are any other precedents for a situation in which a head of government simply refuses to obey a court order. Again, I can’t think of any.

Alam: Could you tell me a little but about the political theory behind contempt of court? When did this first emerge and become part of our Constitution?

FN: Contempt of court is as old as courts. In fact, I think there are judgments which say that the power to enforce court orders through contempt are inherent in the very existence of a court. I think english common law recognising contempt goes back centuries (but would need to check that). As for constitutional recognition, i don’t think our earlier constitutions had it but the provision in the current constitution has been there since 1973. Contempt is very simple. All that the court is saying is that if you will not obey me, then I will punish you.

Riaz: Do you think there was an alternate before executive other than contempt of court act 2012 to stop the advancement of CJP?

FN: Yes. The PPP government can simply write the letter. the other option would have been for them to use back-channel diplomacy and set up a deal whereby the SC sends the letter through a commission and the PPP keeps quiet about it. This current law is useless though because it seems almost deliberately calculated to goad the SC into further action.

Mansoor: What is your opinion about Indian Judge Justice Katju’s remarks about the SCP decision to send the PM Home?

FN: I agree with Justice Katju’s views about judicial restraint generally. But in the specific context of the NRO case, I think Justice Katju has got his facts wrong since writing the letter does not involve a violation of Art 248 (nor was it defended on that ground by the PPP).

Shinawar: To empower senate of Pakistan as the impeachment institution of CJP and other Judges of SCP and HCs not the need of hour and a balancing act?

FN: That’s a political choice and there’s nothing necessarily wrong with it. But it seems like a waste of time to me since we already have a constitutional mechanism for getting rid of judges and changing that mechanism is not going to fix any problem.

On June 21, 2012 the Herald invited Cloughley to a live discussion about the allocation of the defence budget. The blog has been edited for space, clarity and grammar.

7:27 Comment From Safa. What are the reasons behind the secrecy of the defence budget?

7:28 Brian Cloughley. The normal reasons that most countries have for secrecy, although in the case ofPakistan, there is rather more, simply, I think, because of a tradition of secrecy. I doubt it’s sinister.

7:29 Comment From M Anwer. Do you think the allocation of the defence budget is politically motivated?

7:31 Brian Cloughley. No I don’t — if only becausePakistan isn’t like some other countries, in that politicians (in theUS for example) have defence industries in their electorates & have to pander to industry. As to other reasons . . . no, I can’t really think of any.

7:31 Comment From Haroon Asif . When do you think discussing the defence budget in the parliament seize to be taboo. It seams that all political parties when in out of power tend to be all for transparency of defence spending but when in power, only a selected few talk about it and that also behind closed doors. Secondly if the military portrays itself to be so accountable and just why are they afraid of disclosing where the money is being spent?

7:35 Brian Cloughley. You are quite right about parliamentary discussion; of course, it’s a bit strange that there’s no insistence on open examination. For example, they could discuss why there are different priorities for navy and air force in allocations. As to disclosure by the military itself, this can be difficult if only because there are some aspects that should not be known by outsiders. No country, so far as I know, ever gives the smallest details about nuclear programme allocations. But in the basics, you are right: there should be a bit more transparency, and I think it is improving gradually.

7:36 Comment From Haroon Asif. Does the war against militancy within the country justify the 12 % increase in defence spending? (this does not include the Rs 73 billion allocated for pensions of military personnel that would be paid from the civilian budget and a separate allocation for security-related expenses).

7:39 Brian Cloughley. Answering second point first: no country includes military pensions in defence budgets. This was a device dreamed up way back by the politicians so that they could disguise at least some part of military expenditure. As to the war against militancy — I don’t think that the costs of this are widely understood. It is enormously expensive to maintain such a high degree of readiness and to continually train for this type of military activity. The operating costs of having so many troops in the west of the country are really staggering.

7:39 Comment From Hammad Raza. In current coalition government system in Pakistan, a number of political wings of establishment have become part and parcel of Pakistan’s current democratic set-up, how democratic forces can cut down to size the praetorian state structure by rationalizing defence budget?

7:43 Brian Cloughley. Rationalisation of defence budgets is the Ideal of all nations, but it’ll never happen, mainly because it is so difficult to predict what charges will be made. And politicians aren’t experts in this, so they try to cover all bases.

7:43 Comment From Hammad Raza. There is a perennial predicament in Pakistan related to imbalanced civil-military relations. In current situation, when military has gained immense ascendancy to power extending into the realm of political economy, how it can be possible to open up defence budget before ‘unpatriotic’ politicians?

7:45 Brian Cloughley. It’s not a matter of distrusting the politicians. After all, I don’t think that even the most venal of pollies would actually betray their country by revealing defence secrets to foreigners. The matter of openness goes further than that. The tradition is one of secrecy. It hasn’t been the custom to openly discuss defence expenditure matters. I think things are getting better, but this sort of change takes time.

7:46 Comment From Muhammad Faryad. Do you think the defence budget is decreasing the competitiveness of private businesses by subsidizing the military-owned businesses?

7:49 Brian Cloughley. I imagine you are thinking of such organisations as the Fauji Foundation, which owns a lot of businesses. Some of these are indeed in competition with other businesses of like nature. But I don’t think that their competitiveness is adversely affected by the defence budget. And we have to bear in mind that Fauji looks after several million dependants of service members, thereby saving the greater economy an awful lot of money.

7:54 Comment From Muhammad Faryad. Is it true that the changing nature of warfare (remote controlled weapons, cyber warfare, and terrorism, to name a few) requires more investment in educational, technological, and industrial development of the nation to be able to defend the nation from internal and external threats? Or is this just an exaggeration the military propagates?

7:57 Brian Cloughley. There is no doubt that the highly technical devices that are so necessary in modern warfare are expensive in cash terms and demanding in operator skills. So there has to be investment all round. As General Kayani said, “We in the Army understand very well that there should be a very good balance between defence and development because ultimately security does not only mean secure borders but the welfare of the people. We would like to spend less on defence; any country should do the same way.”

So I don’t think there’s much exaggeration going on — but of course all defence forces try to get as much as they can!

7:58 Comment From Hassan J. How does Pak’s defence budget stand in relation to India‘s?

7:59 Brian Cloughley. It’s about one sixth of Indian defence spending. Both countries have enormous internal security problems in addition to maintaining conventional and nuclear defence structures, and the costs are staggering.

8:00 Comment From Dara S. Do you think most of the military expenditure is spent of training and providing the Taliban with weapons?

8:00 Brian Cloughley. I really don’t think that there is any training of Taliban. Or weapons’ supply, either. After all, a country would be a bit strange to train and equip people who have killed over 3000 soldiers of its military and paramilitary forces . . . .

8:02 Comment From Iqbal. In what year was the most transparent defence budget released? Why do you think that was?

8:03 Brian Cloughley. I think it was 2011. All part of governments developing wider social consciences

8:03 Comment From SHM. Besides Pakistan which other country is less open about their military budget? Are the reasons similar to Pakistan?

8:06 Brian Cloughley. No country is really open about its defence budget. It might look as if the UK, for example, is indeed most open — but if one tries to dig down and discover how much is spent on Intelligence, nuclear, murky dealings, we never seem to get very far. The reasons are similar, sure: but one has to bear in mind that in politics and bureaucracy there is an inbuilt tendency to keep things secret for the sake of doing so.

8:06 Comment From Obaid. Adding to what you said, isn’t it true that the defence budget is given such an alarmingly large proportion of our total budget at the expense of the budget allocated towards education, infrastructure etc. When what this country really needs is better educational systems and more development to tackle a lot of problems that the army has to deal with right now. Like terrorism and in the long run corruption which should decrease with an increase in literacy in the country because one of the major rifts between the govt and the military is because of the dishonest leaders that we have. Then why is it that every year our defence budget increases when it should be decreasing or be in some reasonable proportion to other major spending concerns which will in fact help us get out of the mess that we are in better than the army can help us with..

8:10 Brian Cloughley. I so agree with you. But of course we have to bear in mind that all costs are increasing year by year. And when you think of the cost of new equipment, it’s mind-boggling. The main drain, though, is almost certainly in operating costs of the 130,000 troops in the west of the country, who have to be stationed there because of the Afghan war and its most adverse effects on Pakistan’s stability. It costs vast amounts in fuel, for example. And we also have to remember that the services are the only real fall-back when there are natural disasters. The earthquake and the floods would have had much worse effects if it hadn’t been for massive military assistance — which costs an awful lot of money.

8:11 Comment From Yusra. What is the model country for transparent military budget?

8:17 Brian Cloughley. Ireland

8:18 Comment From SHM. Why is Ireland a model country for transparent military budget?

8:19 Brian Cloughley. That was intended to be a tiny joke. Just because it has a very small budget, no advanced weapons, and relies on not having any wars to fight . . .

8:11 Comment From Obaid. What was the biggest problem with the defence budget this year?

8:22 Brian Cloughley. It all depends where you come from. If you’re wearing uniform, you would say ‘There isn’t enough’. If you are a teacher you would probably say ‘it’s far too much.’ In no country will you ever have agreement. But I think we all agree that reduction in defence spending would be a good thing. The Army Chief himself has said this. But how to do it? Better people than we are have tried!

8:25 Brian Cloughley. Here’s what I wrote elsewhere about Pakistan’s defence budgeting process. It might encourage more discussion: Pakistan’s security objectives will place a heavy requirement on maintaining a consistent level of defence spending. However, as GDP is estimated to grow relatively uniformly in later years following the end of current procurement agreements, the percentage of GDP necessary to complete defence objectives will diminish. Also, an uncertain political future could prevent any consistent level of expense, although the military’s omnipresence in Pakistan’s political landscape ensures that levels are unlikely to drop too drastically.

Defence spending transparency has improved inPakistan, but there remains no structured approach to capital acquisition. Programme management and budgeting, as understood in most defence forces, is not practised. The focus of spending is on modernisation, and counterinsurgency operations inNorth WestFrontierProvince.

8:29 Comment From M Anwer. The government has to appease the media, the people and the army. Do you think this years’ defence budget has appeased anyone?

8:30 Brian Cloughley. No I don’t think that this year’s defence budget has appeased or pleased anyone. By definition, that is extremely difficult, if not impossible, because everyone has different priorities. We’re all human.

8:30 Comment From Qayum Khan. Pakistan has been under several martial coups, how does the shroud on the defence budget change in those years?

8:32 Brian Cloughley. In the Zia years everything was kept very quiet indeed — possibly because there were a lot of subsidies from Riyadh. Oddly enough, when democracy came back after Zia was killed, there wasn’t much clarity evident, either, and neither Benazir nor Nawaz seemed anxious to have much more. Strange, really.

I think time’s up. Thank you very much, everyone.

On June 21, 2012 the Herald invited Shah to a live discussion about the allocation of the defence budget. The blog has been edited for space, clarity and grammar.

2:57 Comment From Safa. What are the reasons behind the secrecy of the defence budget?

3:04 Aqil Shah. The military’s standard argument for secrecy is that defence expenditures involve “sensitive national security issues.” Hence, it objects to any civilian scrutiny on the grounds that outside interference would undermine its professional capabilities. The actual problem is that the military’s political dominance has allowed the generals to place themselves above reproach. And for the most part, the military does not trust civilians, especially their ability to keep “secrets.” Neither does it have much confidence in civilian capacity and acumen to understand military affairs. So there is a “trust us, we know better” attitude at work. While all militaries are insular and secretive to varying degrees, and there is a case for not fully publicizing operational and intelligence matters, there is no convincing rationale for cloaking all military expenditures under the convenient pretext of “national security.” The public has every right to be informed about how their money is spent, a right that assumes added importance because of the military’s demonstrably poor recent professional performance (e.g. GHQ attack, Mehran base, U.S. raid to kill bin Laden)

3:06 Comment From M Anwer. Do you think the allocation of the defence budget is politically motivated?

3:09 Aqil Shah. Resource allocation is a political process. The military gets what it wants because it wields the biggest stick in town. Because military budgets are shrouded in secrecy andPakistan’s national security policy is what the military says it is, it is hard to determine the connection between military expenditures and actual security imperatives.

3:10 Comment From Umair Javed. Hi Aqil, Umair Javed here (was in your CMR class at LUMS). Do you think that all this talk about the army’s gradual withdrawal from active politics holds any weight, and more importantly, do you think its fiscal appetite can be curtailed by any means other than by direct political confrontation, possibly in the shape of a popular mass movement?

3:20 Aqil Shah. The military has left power, but it has yet to exit politics. Military extrication from government in 2007-2008 was primarily the result of the need to preserve its institutional reputation threatened by its close association with an isolated and deeply unpopular Musharraf. Put differently, the military withdrew to the barracks contingently, not out of a commitment to democratic norms. This conditional adherence to civilian rule means that the military continues to view itself as the only permanent custodian of the country’s ‘permanent’ interests, which makes civilian authorities ‘temporary,’ and hence, ultimately disposable. The military also reserves the right to exercise broad oversight of the civilian government and overtly or covertly challenge or reverse civilian policy initiatives that impinge on its national security prerogatives. In fact, intervention is still a legitimate option in the military’s institutional mind-set. In the words of COAS General Ashfaq Pervez Kayani, “military interventions are sometimes necessary to maintainPakistan’s stability…temporary bypasses that are created when a bridge collapses on democracy’s highway. After the bridge is repaired, then there’s no longer any need for the detour.”

I am a little sceptical of the actual “democratic” outcomes of “mass movements,” especially when they are based on violent means. Research has shown that non-violent mass uprisings have been more successful in achieving democratic ends in part because they are more likely to win broader domestic (and external) legitimacy. I think democratic institutionalization, a slow and uncertain process no doubt, may offer a more reliable way of clipping the generals’ political and financial wings.

3:21 Comment From Hassan. How does Pakistan‘s Defence Budget stands against that of India‘s? Is that something our policy makers look at? Our defence budget is 18% of total budget (please correct if wrong), does India also give roughly the same percentage to its defence budget?

3:26 Aqil Shah. The official rationale for the amount of defence spending is that Pakistan needs to match India’s military capabilities. India’s military budget is roughly four to five times higher than Pakistan’s total defence allocation in absolute terms, but India allocates a lower percentage of its government expenditure (15-17 % on average) than Pakistan (actually around 25-28 %). But remember, India’s economy is also bigger and growing much faster than Pakistan’s. So the real question is: can we really afford the existing levels of military expenditures given our national economic conditions/resources? When a country spends seven to ten times more on arms than primary education, there is something seriously wrong with its national priorities.

3:27 Comment From Qayum Khan. Pakistan has been under several martial coups, how does the shroud on the defence budget change in those years?

3:30 Aqil Shah. Military expenditures have rarely been transparent, regardless of who is in power. Under military rule, I believe even the perfunctory civilian oversight is diminished. At least in theory, democratic-civilian rule offers more space for debating military expenditures in the public domain than military authoritarian rule.

3:31 Comment From Dara S. What is the biggest problem with the defence budget this year? What is the issue most people have with it?

3:36 Aqil Shah. One of the biggest issues is the absolute lack of transparency and civilian scrutiny. We don’t know the real extent of the military budget. The official allocation for 2012-2013 stands at Rs 545 billion which is highly misleading. Some independent estimates put the actual budget at Rs 800-900 billion, almost double the allocated amount. This is because the estimated budget does not include internal security expenditures, military pensions, debt on military loans, arms purchases, etc. Second, the information disclosed indicates that salaries absorb almost fifty percent of the military budget, which is quite skewed in terms of the ratio between money spent on actual combat preparedness and on personnel maintenance. Put simply, the military spends less on improving its battleground effectiveness than on non-combat expenses.

3:44 Comment From Muhammad Faryad. Is it true that the changing nature of warfare (remote controlled weapons, cyber warfare, and terrorism, to name a few) requires more investment in educational, technological, and industrial development of the nation to be able to defend the nation from internal and external threats? Or is this just an exaggeration the military propagates?

3:47 Aqil Shah. There is certainly an argument to be made about the need to invest in human and technological capital amidst the changing tenor of modern warfare. But in a world of scarce resources, there is also a trade-off between what a country can spend on developing an advanced military machine and what it invests in building human capabilities and providing basic human security from hunger, disease and poverty.

3:48 Comment From Gul. They say that Pakistan’s foreign policy can be summarised in one word: India. Is this the sole reason for our oversized defence budget or does the Taliban also have a lot to do with it?

3:52 Aqil Shah. Traditionally, the size of military budgets has been driven by the perceived threat from India. Internal security threats, Taliban and the like, have become more salient especially since 9/11. However, the military’s main mission is still fighting India and its doctrines, training, perceptions are largely products of the threat from the east. The military establishment tends to see internal threats as part of “enemy/India designs” to destabilize Pakistan from within. Hence, domestic and external threats are deeply intertwined in its national security policies.

3:54 Comment From M Anwer. The government has to appease the media, the people and the army. Do you think this years’ defence budget has appeased anyone?

3:59 Aqil Shah. As far as defence spending is concerned, the civilian government has no real space to appease anyone except the armed forces. The military budget is usually not subject to change because of civilian preferences. The dominant right-wing sections of the media, as well as military-sponsored “defense analysts,” play an important role in constantly refurbishing the military’s “national security” narrative that helps legitimate large and unaccountable military spending. In that sense, you can say that the media acts as an additional pressure group that restricts the civilian government’s already limited room to manoeuvre.

4:01 Aqil Shah. I would love to answer more questions but the time has run out. Thank you for your participation.

On May 18, 2012, Herald asked him to hold a live blog where people could pose their questions about clashes in North Waziristan. The blog has been edited for space, clarity and grammar.

7:02 Comment from Jehanzeb. Pakistan has a tendency to poke into external security issues without paying much heed to its own domestic security issues. The result has been just short of a catastrophe for Pakistan internally (e.g. Balochistan, Waziristan). Are the people dominating the security apparatus short-sighted enough to carry on the same policies, or does there need to be a complete overhaul in thinking and policy?

7:05 Saleem Safi. I think there should be a complete overhaul in both thinking and policies as the current approach and policies are self-destructive in nature.

7:05 Comment from Nasi. Why do you think some of our people support this militancy and some are against it?

7:08 Saleem Safi. Those who have learnt lessons are not supportive and those who consider US and India a more serious threat to Pakistani security than militants, those people have a soft corner for them.

7:09 Comment from Fatima. Could it be just that Pakistan is so busy cleaning up everyone else’s mess that they don’t realize the mess that they are causing in the process? I think we have moved past a point where is a war with tribalism, I think we have reached the pinnacle of civil disturbance.

7:17 Saleem Safi. Yes,Fatima with some extent you are right. Our leaders have made Pakistanis more international than Pakistani. Instead of our own qualities, we try to live with talking about others mistakes. You are right that we are moving towards civil disturbance but at the same time some rays of hope and the trends of self accountability are also emerging.

7:17 Comment from Sikander Orakzai. Only an argument which focuses on the domestic aspect (criminals operating outside the bounds of Pakistani law) of North Waziristan can have the support of the tribal areas and all people and institutions of Pakistan. Latching on to foreign rhetoric will not do. Do you agree?

7:22 Saleem Safi. Yes, I agree but at the same time we have to address also the external aspects of the issue. The issue of militancy and extremism is multi-dimensional one and for its solutions we have to adopt a multi-dimensional approach.

7:23 Comment from MO. Can any military operation in North Waziristan or any other part of the country be successful without the full support of the Pakistani people? Instead of it being ridiculed as something to “appease the US” by the Pakistani people? Would you say the Pakistani population is in denial and not in touch with the gravity and reality of the current situation?

7:27 Saleem Safi. The military conducted so many operations in tribal areas and Malakand Division but the people ofPakistan are still facing the menace of terrorism. That’s why the people (including me) are against the military operation. Majority of the people ofPakistan are progressive and peace loving but they are confused.

7:30 Comment from Mikal. Is the area that constitutes North Waziristan and South Waziristan an area that can be controlled permanently? Is it viable for a local police presence to be established and eventually handed control of the area? And is it an area that can be governed without military involvement?

7:34 Saleem Safi. Before 2001 both the North andSouth Waziristan were under government control. In the whole tribal areas political agent were considered to be the kings. Actually this dirty game in the region resulted in anarchy and the writ of militant in the region.

7:35 Comment from Iftekhar. Can FATA be integrated with Khyber Pakhtunkhwa, if not why? Are there any linguistic or racial differences? Thirdly, what do you think should be the road map for extending rule of law, i.e. fundamental rights and governance to FATA? Is there any indication that Pakistan going to reverse the policy of using tribes as veritable arm of itself?

7:43 Saleem Safi. Yes. Not only FATA can be integrated in Khyber Pakhtunkhwa, but I think this is the only viable option. People of FATA and the adjacent districts of Khyber Pakhtunkhwa have the same language, culture and religion. For health, education and other facilities FATA is dependent on Khyber Pakhtunkhwa resources. The people who are living in Peshawar, Mardan, Charsadda, Kohat, Banu etc belongs to the same tribes of tribal areas. The offices of some political agents are still operating fro the settled areas of Khyber Pakhtunkhwa. For example the PA Khyber Agency is operating from Peshawar and PA Aurakzai from Hangu. There are no indications that Pakistan is going to reverse the policy of using tribal areas as veritable arm but if we want to make Pakistan safe and secure then we must bring these areas into main stream.

7:43 Comment from Aqib Ansari. My main question is why can’t Pakistan army with its huge force and sophisticated weapons control the insurgency?

7:47 Saleem Safi. The Pakistan Army cannot control the insurgency because of the confused policies of the State. Still, it is not clear that who is the enemy and who is the friend. Who is the asset and who is the menace. Secondly, it is a multi-dimensional problem but our governments tried to solve this with only the use of force. No government gave any attention to the other dimensions like ideological, economic, political and social.

7:48 Comment from Iftekhar. Which narrative do you support about tribal areas, Farhat Taj’s or Imran Khan’s?

7:51 Saleem Safi. Both of these narratives are more simplistic and based one extreme or on other extreme. Although I have a lot of respect for Farhat Taj and Imran Khan but am not the supporter of their narratives on War on Terror.

7:52 Comment from Guest. Every local person knows that there are large number of foreign fighters in the NW but why our media hypothetically do not show this in there program or talk about this?

7:54 Saleem Safi. Because the media is not allowed to these areas. The second reason is threats to Media persons. You know dozens of journalists were killed in the last ten years.

7:54 Comment from GTM. The obsession with India and the resulting 4 attacks on India that have brought extraordinary economic and political setbacks to Pakistan. Do you agree?

7:59 Saleem Safi. I think Pakistan bad relations with India is the mother of so many problems of our country. I think this element is the root cause of Martial laws bad economy and also of militancy.

7:59 Muhammad Waqas. All our problems in FATA and Afghanistan started after the US entered the region. So I think till the time the US does not exit both militarily and politically there will be no peace. What do you think?

7:59 Saleem Safi. Thank u all for your questions. I have to leave for another commitment. So bye and take care.

On May 19, 2012, Herald asked him to hold a live blog where people could pose their questions about clashes in North Waziristan. The blog has been edited for space, clarity and grammar.

5:10 Comment from Raza Wazir. It is now an established fact that NW is home to the deadly Haqqani Network and Al Qaeda fighters who have conducted several attacks in Afghanistan. Given that why do the Pakistani media and authorities only deal with the threat of militancy when its own personnel are attacked?

5:13 Brigadier Saad Muhammad. The other militant groups that operate out of North Waziristan serve the foreign policy objectives of Pakistan. Therefore these groups are given protection by the state of Pakistan. The media is either disinterested or simply do not have access to the lawless areas

5:14 Comment from Jehanzib. Are the Pakistani security agencies implicitly for or against the tribal militants on the whole? On one hand they seem to supporting and using the Haqqanis as a tool and at the same time they are under threat from a related string of militants. Is this an intentional policy or are they just confused?

5:19 Brigadier Saad Muhammad. The army looks at the militants as good or bad Taliban. Those who focus on Afghanistan are the good ones and those who carry out attacks on Pakistani security forces or installations are the bad ones. Now particularly in the case of North Waziristan a full fledged military operation would not be able to distinguish between the good and the bad Taliban therefore it has been put on the hold till such time the Afghan end game becomes clearer

5:20 Comment from Nasi. Actually I think that our rulers do not understand what their nation is like. Why do some people support this militancy and some are against?

5:24 Brigadier Saad Muhammad. The right wing political parties have a pan Islamist agenda. The same as being professed by the Al-Qaeda and its affiliates. The slogans of America being against Islam are meant for the ignorant people of the country.

5:24 Comment From Sikandar Orakzai. There are better ways to take care of the purported “infiltration” like patrolling, mining, and fencing instead of drone terror and military operations which could only create more that would fight intruders on to their homeland. Do you agree?

5:30 Brigadier Saad Muhammad. The solution to the Afghan problem is through negotiations. While Pakistan’s problems are internal and have to be dealt with by paradigm shift in policy that means no more proxy wars. Become a welfare state than a security state. On the Afghan border there is no way you can stop movement. And also you would be violating the Durand line agreement which gives easement rights to people living within five miles of the border.

5:30 Comment From MO. Can any military operation in NW or any other part of the country be successful without the full support of the Pakistani people? Instead of it being ridiculed as something to “appease the US” by the Pakistani people? Would you say the Pakistani population is in denial and not in touch with the gravity and reality of the current situation?

5:36 Brigadier Saad Muhammad. Per se no military operation especially counter insurgency cannot succeed without popular support. Having said that it is the duty of the government to explain the reasons for any military operation and win over the hearts and minds of the people also the other facets of counter insurgency operation must also be take care of e.g. political, economic, social and spy operations. I would agree that most of our people are in a state of denial.

5:36 Comment From GTM. Is the Pakistan Army again not engaged in becoming the “spoiler” in Afghanistan, because it is obsessed by India, and by its own delusions of its place in the universe?

5:41 Brigadier Saad Muhammad. I would agree that the foreign policy objectives that we have set for ourselves are beyond the capability of our national power. Our policy is therefore flawed as we look at every issue through the Indian prism policies are based on SWOT factors i.e. strengths weaknesses opportunities and threats.

5:41 Comment From SHM. How prepared is the Afghan police to handle the security situation once the US and ISAF troops pull out from Afghanistan?

5:47 Brigadier Saad Muhammad. The afghan national security forces lack the capacity to defeat the insurgency on their own. If a foreign military force which is highly trained and backed up by force multipliers cannot cope with the objective environment, I wonder how the Afghan forces which lack air cover would be able to handle the situation on their own. Even the cost effect of maintaining these forces i.e. four billion dollars are as yet to be available. The current Afghan GDP is 10 billion dollars

5:47 Comment from Mikal. Is the area that constitutes North Waziristan and South Waziristan an area that can be controlled permanently? Is it viable for a local police presence to be established and eventually handed control of the area? And is it an area that can be governed without military involvement?

5:52 Brigadier Saad Muhammad. We have failed to evolve a policy for integration of FATA into the mainstream Pakistan. The FATA reforms committee recommendations have not been implemented because of objections by the security establishment. The integration of FATA has to be an evolutionary process keeping in view the local customs and traditions of the people.

5:52 Comment from Iftekhar. How is Karachi going to be affected by NW?

5:57 Brigadier Saad Muhammad. Karachi is a different ball game. Having said that it is affected by the lawlessness in FATA becauseKarachi has a large Pushtun population and also the displaced persons tend to migrate to Karachi for obvious reasons.Karachi is also an area from where the terrorists can obtain funding through criminal activities.

5:58 Comment From Iftekhar. Was it a mistake to recognize / keep the status of FATA as we got it in 1947?

6:01 Brigadier Saad Muhammad. It was certainly a huge error of judgement to ignore FATA for 64 years. The successive governments lacked the will, wisdom and vision to foresee the problem that we were creating for ourselves. Someone falters and posterity suffers.

6:02 Comment From Raza Wazir. Why are we so obsessed with Indian presence in Afghanistan? Why is Pakistan not allowing Indians to fund development projects in Afghanistan?

6:13 Brigadier Saad Muhammad.India is upto mischief inAfghanistan. However we need not be worried. We should have confidence in ourselves. If we only stop dictating foreign policy to Afghanistan they cannot ignore us or be unfriendly. They trade through Pakistan, get educated here get medical treatment here and enjoy living here too. So what’s the problem?

6:14 Comment From Iftekhar. But urban politics in Karachi is reactionary, how has it has prepared itself to keep that NW factor in check?

6:16 Brigadier Saad Muhammad. I have already replied to this.Karachi is far more complex than being affected by Waziristan alone. I have served in Karachi for 7 long years (1993-1999). It will require another sitting to discuss Karachi.

6:17 Comment From SHM. How influential is the Haqqani network in Pakistan and Afghanistan?

6:20 Brigadier Saad Muhammad. The Haqqani network has no interest in Pakistan. It uses it as a sanctuary and training area. InAfghanistan it operates in the provinces of Paktia, Paktika, Logar, Khowst and has the ability to hit Kabul city every now and then.

6:20 Comment From Awais Lodhi. What concrete steps is the US taking to remove the genuine threats that emanate from Afghanistan towards Pakistan i.e. the Indian presence in Afghanistan, the Pakhtunistan issue, drug smuggling, northern alliance and much more?

6:25 Brigadier Saad Muhammad. The Americans have over-militarized the counter insurgency efforts with no emphasis on the other facets. The Americans are of the view that if Pakistan is not making efforts to control the movement of insurgents into Afghanistan why should they do vice-versa. Regarding the Pakhtunistan issue it is more of a mythPakistan needs to ignore it, it simply does not exists.

6:25 Comment From Aqin Ansari. Why can’t Pakistan army with its huge force and sophisticated weaponry control the insurgency?

6:30 Brigadier Saad Muhammad. It is very difficult to control such a huge insurgency. The Pakistan Army is already stretched to the limit, also, the military instrument is one facet of counter insurgency. Our political government lacks the capacity and intellect to understand this. To eradicate this menace requires a comprehensive and integrated counter terrorism/insurgency policy. At the moment we have none.

6:32 Brigadier Saad Muhammad. The time for the live session is now over. Thank you for joining in.

On April 16, 2012, Herald asked him to hold a live blog where people could pose their questions about sectarian violence. The blog has been edited for space, clarity and grammar.

9:11 Comment From SHM. Why have the police consistently failed to curb sectarian violence in the country

9:16 Malik Iqbal. It is the collective responsibility of the society because it is our attitude towards religion which determines how the society as a whole takes shape. The intolerance towards others’ beliefs/faith is the basic reason for extremism. The police on its part is doing its level best to control such types of crimes which have assumed dangerous proportions in recent times because of multifarious factors. The foreign intervention on account of using one extremist against the other is the primary cause for this dilemma. Anyhow, there is a lot of room for improvement in the performance of the police which also requires capacity building in areas such as training and fighting terrorism.

9:16 Comment From Lubna Shah. In your experience as the DG of Balochistan, who is to blame for the violence in Balochistan? The Army, government, Taliban or the Baloch themselves?

9:33 Malik Iqbal. As IGP Balochistan it is my experience that we cannot hold responsible either the Army or the Government for the present state of affairs. It is in fact the foreign hand which is patronizing some disgruntled elements in order to destabilize Pakistan. They have been able to identify existent weaknesses in our society and they are actively exploiting them. To my mind LEJ and TTP are involved in the indiscriminate killing of the Hazara community in Quetta. I have no doubt in my mind about the capability of the Law enforcement agencies to handle the situation provided political will is there. However, it is important we should pay full attention towards the capacity building LEAs.

9:34 Comment From Ahsan Majeed. Could you tell us how your experience of sectarian violence was different in different provinces? Is the type of violence in Sindh different from that of Punjab? Or are the causes the same?

9:37 Malik Iqbal. As far as the sectarian violence is concerned, the primary cause according to my experience is extremism and intolerance in the society. Whether it is Sindh or Punjab, the causes are the same. However, the involvement of different groups cannot be ignored. This is the unholy alliance of different groups who are working against each other to establish their own hegemony at the cost of lives of innocent citizens.

9:38 Comment From SHM. You were given a grant of 15 million Euros even then NACTA failed to take off, why?

9:45 Malik Iqbal. As far as NACTA is concerned there is a basic need for providing a legal framework for the organization to function properly. The donors have been reluctant to cooperate until such a legal framework is put into place. This is the primary reason for the failure of NACTA.

9:45 Comment From Naveed Hazara. The Balochistan Police as well as some Ministers are saying that there are hurdles to taking action against those religious militants. Being an ex IG in Balochistan, what do you think those hurdles are?

9:49 Malik Iqbal. Personally speaking, I do not agree to this statement. My firm belief is that political will is the foremost requirement to handle such like crimes. The Hazara community is being targeted by the unholy alliance of LEJ and TTP. There is need to handle these elements with an iron hand and the administration should not hide behind such lame excuses.

9:50 Comment From Mohammad A Dar. First of all why do sects exist? Where are the sources of sectarianism? Does anyone have strength of knowledge to correct the path of Ummah, misguided by so-called, self-appointed scholars in the name of religion? Can you elaborate please?

9:56 Malik Iqbal. Sects have existed since a very long time. Because of the tolerance between various sects and respect for each other’s faith untoward situation were rare at best. The basic principle is that one should not leave his own faith and should not interfere with the faith of others. As long as we were strictly adhering to this golden principle, the society was full of tolerance resulting in peace and tranquillity. When the extremist elements from abroad entered our society and tried to impose their own faith upon the others, it meets stiff resistance and society falls apart on the basis of religious divisions. It is my suggestion that if we follow the golden principle of respecting the faith and ideas of others it is bound to bring reconciliation and peace among all. One cannot be the judgemental about other people’s faiths.

9:57 Comment From Cyrus Howell. During the past year, no politician has dared raise the issue of reforming the blasphemy law. Intolerance by extremists against both Muslims and non-Muslims has increased enormously and there has been a dramatic rise in the number of sectarian attacks, which are usually perpetrated by Sunni extremists against Shia citizens. Why do you think this is so?

10:12 Malik Iqbal. The present situation cannot be termed as a clash between Sunnis and Shias. In fact, these are the extremists who are actively involved in creating a wedge between various sections of the society by attacking their faith. It is the collective responsibility of the society as a whole to put up a bold stance against these elements, even the politician cannot be held responsible for this inaction. The extremists have so far succeeded in creating an atmosphere of hostility between different sects and are using one against the other.

As far as the Blasphemy Law is concerned, it is based on the basic faith of Muslims. It is a very delicate issue and needs to be handled extremely tactfully. Any misguided zealousness may result in a far more alarming response from the masses than anyone would imagine.

10:12 Comment From I.W Khan. Today’s news is that around 400 Prisoners from Banu Jail were helped by Teherik-e-Taliban to escape. They were fighting there for 2 hours. Where was the security force? Where was the military? Where were the security helicopters? Pakistan security forces have failed so many times. These 400 escapees will be a source of additional violence. Do you agree?

10:15 Malik Iqbal. No doubt this was a serious situation which will have far-reaching consequences. One cannot tend to agree with such a sweeping statement questioning the capability of the LEAs. The police and other agencies are very actively pursuing the re-arrest of these escapees and responsibility is being fixed for negligence of duty if any. Till the final outcome of the inquiry one should avoid indulging in a blame game.

10:15 Comment From JUMA. Are secret agencies involved in genocide of Hazaras in Quetta to weaken the Baloch independent movement? In order to show the world that it is a sectarian issue in Balochistan not an independent one?

10:18 Malik Iqbal. This statement is based on heresy and has misconceived the actual issues. The Hazara community in Quetta is being targeted, as far as my personal knowledge goes, by the unholy alliance of LEJ and TTP in order to destabilizePakistan. Some Baloch dissidents are also supporting this unholy alliance for their own benefit. The Hazara community is loyal to Pakistan and any such suggestion is totally based on conjectures and is far from reality.

10:21 Thank you all for joining in. I hope you enjoyed the session.

On April 16, 2012, Herald asked him to hold a live blog where people could pose their questions about sectarian violence. The blog has been edited for space, clarity and grammar.

6:59 Comment From Mohammad A Dar. First of all why do sects exist? Where are the sources of sectarianism? Can you elaborate please?

7:04 Amir Rana. The problem is not sects but the intolerance and violence. Without going into the historical background, ones needed to develop sectarian harmony and security response, major responsibility goes to clergy and the state

7:04 Comment From Naveed. Are state and religion are two separate domains? Is Pakistan trapped in sectarian violence mainly due to intermingling of these two domains?

7:13 Amir Rana. For a democratic state, yes. But inPakistan, religious discourse is complex, which primarily focuses on Islamisation of the state and religious-socialisation of society. Cut and short, religious parties have influence on policy discourse, which constrain state to come up on religious issues with clarity. The result is obvious; sectarianism has become a structural problem.

The solution seems difficult but through developing an intellectual discourse and alternative narratives may help

7:13 Comment From Junaid. Is it true that your book A to Z Jihad was banned in Pakistan and that agencies picked up the copies of the book from the book stores?

7:15 Amir Rana. It was not banned but of course there was pressure and my publisher has refused to publish its Urdu version

7:15 Comment From Sadia. Is it likely that the Hazara and the Ahmadi communities will become non-existent in the near future? (Either through forced exodus or violent targeting). Do they have any reason to be hopeful?

7:17 Amir Rana. In the absence of a proper counter terrorism strategy, targeted communities and sects are justified to see the design behind the sequence of events. It’s the criminal negligence by the state which forces people to adopt such narratives.

7:18 Comment From Imran. How complicit do you think the security apparatus is in the current sectarian violence gripping the country, both directly and indirectly? Also, what are your thoughts on arrested criminals being released by the judiciary for lack of evidence or weak prosecution? This is especially true since on one hand political/corruption cases are taken up by the court despite lack of interest or evidence from the prosecutors while the same is not applied in terrorism cases.

7:21 Amir Rana.Pakistan still has neither a national security policy nor has developed any counter-terrorism mechanism. Security forces do response to security threats. But these responses are not part of any comprehensive strategy. The coordination among different law enforcement agencies, operational capabilities and of course judicial response considers three major components in any counter-terrorism policy. Unfortunately we are facing multiple issues on all these three fronts.

7:22 Comment From Aaliya. What sort of policy initiatives do you think can or must be undertaken to begin the fight to maintain our country’s diversity and peace, and stop these ethnically and religiously motivated killings? What should be the next steps?

7:24 Amir Rana. Simply a three level approach:

1. Counter-insurgency in TA

2. Counter-terrorism policy

3. Counter-radicalization policy

7:24 Comment From Hazara Tigers. Are the agencies involved in killing of Hazara tribesmen intended to weaken the independence movement of Baloch nationalists?

7:26 Amir Rana. There is no concrete evidence available but one thing is certain that the state has failed to address critical security challenges.

7:27 Comment From Seema. Most of our agencies are involved in pushing our society towards sectarian violence. What is DPC?

7:32 Amir Rana. The custodians of the strategic-depth narrative are united on the DPC platform and are trying to revive the pre-9/11 discourse. There are no illusions about the fact that their narrative does not deal with the issues of the common man: poverty, injustice and economic and social deprivation. One reason which DPC or its master thinks that they can control the few violent extremist group, which have disconnected with pre 9/11 jihad narrative and joined Al-Qaeda, though this is difficult.

7:32 Comment From Safdar Sial. What hinders the state to effectively respond to violent sectarianism?

7:36 Amir Rana. Apart from nexuses among militants, it is also important to understand the political dynamics of sectarian violence in Pakistan. Many of the banned sectarian organisations wear political hats and take part in electoral politics, whether with different names and independent candidates or through making alliances with mainstream political parties, which obviously create more space for them. The second confusion on policy level, faith fellows of sectarian outfits remained engaged in Afghan and Kashmir. This is another factor. Third, a weak perception of the state institutions and law enforcement agencies

7:36 Comment From Sadya. What’s your take on the forced conversions of Hindu girls? Should we expect to see massive sectarian radicalization in Sindh too?

7:39 Amir Rana. Increased influence of radical groups, mainly JuD, Jiash and Al-Rasheed trust in the Hindu community areas of Sindh and Balochistan is quite concerning. It’s not merely an issue of radicalization but is also a threat to diversity.

7:40 Comment from Akhtar CH. Sectarian violence is occurring mostly in Sindh, Balochistan and Gilgit-Baltistan, all PPP majority government provinces. Why is the government finding it so difficult to control it?

7:45 Amir Rana. I think sectarian violence patterns are different. Kurram agency, Kohat, Karachi and southPunjab remained critical even before 9/11. During last three years the trend has become traditional. In 2010, more than 60 per cent of the total casualties of sectarian violence were concentrated in the cities of Karachi,Lahore andQuetta. In 2011, the ratio of such casualties in these cities stood at about 40 per cent of the overall sectarian-related casualties in Pakistan.

7:48 Comment From Seema. Do you think the DPC has no connection with the particular Sectarian Sunni outfit, and was Hameed Gul not part of that mission who created Monsters of Mujahideen?

7:50 Amir Rana. Structural patterns of sectarian violence had taken the shape in 80’s. It’s true that sectarian violent tendencies dominate in low income groups, despite economic factors, low level of religious knowledge (mainly education) make them soft targets for sectarian groups.

7:50 Comment From ozzie. Shouldn’t it just be called Genocide? This is a systemic targeting of minorities in Pakistan.

7:52 Amir Rana. It seems so. Not only state responses but societal behaviours also are shaping this trend.

7:52 Comment From SHM. Why has the provincial government in Punjab allowed sectarian based groups to flourish in their province?

7:56 Amir Rana. During there last tenure PML (N) government had taken strict action against sectarian outfits and even blamed for extra-judicial killing of the militants. Now the Punjab government is scared with the sectarian outfits’ nexus with Al-Qaeda and Taliban. Secondly now it is not merely a security issue but on the narrative level the Punjab government has not proved itself visionary and courageous.

7:56 Comment From Fyaz. As you know the sectarian division is deep rooted in our society, and ‘Islam” had a long history of wars among Muslims, the situation is the same here in Pakistan. What is the state or establishment’s role in promoting sectarian violence in the country? If the state allows and permits the violent sectarian organization to operate in the country and issue the Fatwas against the other sect then where is the solution? What should be the state’s role to handle this as followers of this organization do not obey the law of the state?

7:57 Amir Rana. I think of course criminal negligence of the state is an important factor.

7:58 Comment From Murad Aftab. Is a major cause of sectarian violence the rise of religiously political parties that are coming more into the mainstream such as Jamaat ud Dawa and Difa-e-Pakistan council?

7:59 Amir Rana. Yes this is one of the reasons, as I explained earlier, main-streaming of sectarian groups provide more political space to them

8:00 Comment From Agha Atta. There is only one valid reason for such sectarian violence. We have sects. The solution, bring all of them under one umbrella, the umbrella of secularism. Do you agree?

8:01 Amir Rana. No. this is not the solution, sectarian and communal tolerance is the answer.

8:05 Amir Rana. I’m sorry but my time is up. I hope I was able to answer most of your questions.

7:55 Comment From Rahim. The drama explores clichéd mills and boons themes, how it worked for mass audiences and did you expect it to?

7:56 Sarmad Khoosat. I agree that it is very mills and boons but probably that’s what the audiences wanted, (some good melodrama and I didn’t expect this massive a response at all.

7:57 Comment From Aleesa. Why did you feel the need to re-shoot the last episode?

7:58 Sarmad Khoosat. Just the last scene, we needed more romance and RAIN.

7:58 Comment From fazeelat. Why are mother-in-laws always made out to be such tyrants?

8:00 Sarmad Khoosat. I’ll blame that on the novelist/screenwriter…..and that comes with the genre…..melodrama banks on cliches and very little grey areas.

8:01 Comment From Tooba Akhtar. Dramas like Tanhaaiyan, Dhoop Kinare, Unkahi, the Urdu drama era classics, were all super hits primarily because of the quality of scripts and acting. In this day and age, do you think that the measuring scale for quality TV dramas has changed now that so many other aspects play a role in promoting a drama’s popularity?

8:06 Sarmad Khoosat. I believe the script is always the winner and performances are based on the ‘book’ even if they diverge a bit or are re-interpreted. Humsafar does belong in the same sensibility as it is not too high on the production values as such in technical terms. Direction wise it uses a lot of close ups which keeps every other element of the frame (screen) in the background, the emphasis being on the actors and dialogues or the expressions. When it comes to promotion, Humsafar was very under-promoted other than promos or trailers on TV. We went on air with zero or bare minimum print promotion.

8:06 Comment From SZ. What were some of your thoughts as you converted a desi urdu novel to appeal to a wider cosmopolitan sensibility?

8:08 Sarmad Khoosat. I swear I never thought about that. I never thought I would make it appealing to the urbans or desis in particular…..but I think that has to do more with the kind of cast. All ‘ungraizee medium’ (brilliant) actors.

8:08 Sarmad Khoosat. And to some extent the aesthetic control too

8:08 Comment From kohari B. I heard part of the serial was filmed in Mirpur Khas – is this true? I’m from Mirpur Khas and I’ve never seen a house like that there!

8:09 Sarmad Khoosat. Yes that’s true. It’s inside a sugar mill…..like a farm / summer house That’s how the production was designed.

8:09 Comment From arisha g. If you had the liberty to make a drastic change to any aspect of the novel’s interpretation, what would you have taken out or shown differently?

8:11 Sarmad Khoosat. I would have wanted more logic or elaboration to the ‘accusation’ scene which is the mid-climax and only if I had known that the romantic scenes would turn out so well and received with such generosity by the audience, I would have had more of those

8:12 Comment From SZ. Does the success of Humsafar mean that we’ve lost you to the biwi/shohar type stories? No more Kalmoohi type dramas from you?

8:16 Sarmad Khoosat. Not at all. I’m glad someone actually watched Kalmoohi because apparently it got lost somewhere.PTVis not as widely watched by the urban audience. I believe in story telling and I wont like telling the same story (ies) over and over again, but I guess I have done a lot of psychological and macabre stuff so I would want to explore softer themes, more romance maybe and something to do with love, particularly about how one can fall in love again with the same person or how to strengthen the bond

8:16 Comment From Guest. A more general question about our dramas on air these days, in order to show a woman being strong (the latest trend) why does the man have to be so weak (Ashar cried buckets!) why can we not have both protagonists on equal footing?

8:19 Sarmad Khoosat. I completely agree with that. I think our writers need to write stronger male characters, some nice male-centric stories too. I guess since we have a lot of women writers nowadays hence they focus more on the female characters (forgive my sexist statement please) but that’s true for most of the scripts I’ve come across lately.

8:19 Comment From Hamza Qaiser. I appreciate the quality our TV dramas have achieved over the years but don’t you think we are stuck with one kind of genre and have stopped evolving? Have you considered making good comedies or sci-fi thrillers for primetime in Pakistan?

8:24 Sarmad Khoosat. I guess TV has just regained a larger audience and as we explore more audience, which is not just the housewives as per common consensus, more genres would be explored, I directed a murder mystery (produced by Mehreen Jabbar) in 2008 but it never clicked. But I guess now we can experiment a bit and if we develop an audience for other genres, you’ll see more variety, maybe not in the primetime slot though. The channels need to take some risks with ratings for that so they need to be braver!

8:24 Comment From SRA CA. People from around the globe were attracted to Humsafar. Even The Toronto Star did a report on this drama. Besides the direction, acting, and script to what extent did social media play a role in the success of this production?

8:26 Sarmad Khoosat. A huge role I must say. I think half of the hype we owe to Facebook

8:26 Comment From SZ. When can we expect to see your name on the silver screen — you’re so ready! Particularly after the heavy duty melodrama and Atiqa channeling Bahar Begum (as over the top mother-in-law) from the 70’s Urdu films, Khirad being kicked out, and removing the pin-from-the-bun scenes!!

8:30 Sarmad Khoosat. Very soon. I mean, come on if the masses like it I’ll bring it on. All of us are Madhuri Dixit and Salman Khan fans and the songs and the dances. I really want to do a good masala film very soon so fingers crossed. And the pin-from-the-bun made a lot of people go aww and I don’t mind pleasing my audience hopefully with better and innovative cheesy moments

8:30 Comment From Sumera. My question/comment is on the suicide act that Sarah commits. Although it is dramatic but I think this should not have been done this way. It shows and gives a message to all those females who don’t get to marry their loved one that the only option they have is to commit suicide. I think there is a very negative message here for females. There are a lot of alternatives and a lot of options available that could have been show rather than the sad demise of Sarah. Really, suicide should not be encouraged or shown as an option even.

8:35 Sarmad Khoosat. You are absolutely right, but stories are stories. I don’t think that we were preaching it really. People are supposed to learn a lesson instead. I also agree that there could have been other kinds of resolutions or conclusions to her character but that’s what the writer wrote and we sort of stuck to the ‘book’, so it’s just a ‘drama’ and I categorically made note of the suicide scene on every show. It isn’t meant to inspire anyone and I made sure it was shot in all the negative light possible, I tried!

8:35 Comment From Hina. What are your upcoming projects? And when will I be able to see Mahira on TV again. I miss her.

8:37 Sarmad Khoosat. I have just finished filming this serial titled ‘Ashk’ and that would come out soon around end April inshaAllah. It has Fawad in it and there is a project in the pipe line with Mahira too. Other than that I am also going to do a period play soon.

8:37 Comment From Shawn, CA. I haven’t read the novel and was wondering if in the adapted version, Farida’s motive were kept hidden from the audience. Until the incident at Khizr’s apartment, the audience was kept in the dark about Farida’s evil plans. I felt a bit manipulated.

8:39 Sarmad Khoosat. The novelist was herself the screenwriter by the way so any changes to the actual plot/content were her own and frankly when I was told that it’s based on a novel then I made sure that I don’t read the novel because that just creates differences of interpretation and I was safe because Farhat had herself adapted it.

8:39 Comment From SZ. A huge problem these days is the way stereotypes are being easily re-inforced – how conscious are you about your role here?

8:43 Sarmad Khoosat. I’ll be honest, I have tried more gritty and realistic and not very stereotypical kind of scripts too. Simultaneous to Humsafar’s telecast term I had another serial titled ‘Jalpari’ being telecast on Geo. It didn’t do as well, not that I’m comparing content essentially but prime time is focused more on what sells with the audience. I do want to integrate agendas and causes but for that I guess I’ll just have to wait until I find the time to be involved in the script writing process from a much earlier phase.

8:44 Comment From Hamza Qaiser. Just wondering, who’s idea was to pair up Mahira with Fawad? I believe they are both very marketable faces, especially when put together.

8:44 Sarmad Khoosat. Momina Duraid’s!

8:44 Comment From Adil. While the serial was in middle and got very popular, did you guys made any changes to sustain that popularity or thinking or worried that it would remain popular?

8:49 Sarmad Khoosat. No changes were made at all. We had shot all of it around September last year and some deleted scenes were shot later which back then I thought were not needed for the narrative flow but they seemed important on the editing table and those too were very few. We re-shot the last scene just to enhance the romance and add texture with rain only

8:49 Comment From SZ. Given the TRP system, and the way producers follow them, don’t you think a large cross-section of the audience (the thinking audience – sorry to be so un-pc here, but yes, demographics other than housewives also watch Pakistani TV) is being left behind?

8:54 Sarmad Khoosat. Absolutely yes, but that’s the inherent flaw / dilemma with things that target mass consumption. They need to diversify of course, this is my first commercial success my intro to theTRPsystem. I have told all sorts of odd stories but they target the unfortunate (not catered to widely) niche only. I did a series titled ‘Aao Kahaani Buntay Hain’ which was directed by my sister, Kanwal Khoosat, and honestly I had such difficulties selling it to any channel and everyone, hands up, rejected it after saying it’s great, creative and all those nice things but ‘very difficult or impossible’ to market you shall check it out on youtube please.

8:54 Comment From Shawn, CA. How long did it take to shoot the confrontation scene of Ashar with his mother in last episode. I have seen that confrontation scene like million times on YouTube and can’t get over how superbly Ashar has delivered his dialogues.

8:56 Sarmad Khoosat. It took a couple of hours I guess about three to four and we had been working non-stop for at least 30 hrs when we eventually got down to shooting that one. My actors were sleepless and drained…..true fighters

9:01 Comment From zka. Was your reaction to the “whole finished package” any different from when you started? Did you think it would appeal to both the females and males, and that too of all ages?

9:06 Sarmad Khoosat. I am very happy and pleasantly surprised. Humsafar was quite a journey that way. A lot of things were completely unexpected. It stayed very organic till the post-production phase. It kind of kept growing on its own, the romantic scenes in particular turned out to be much nicer and better in the finished package:) and I guess its biggest achievement is getting the male audience and the ‘Yo’ kids back to desi television. I still wonder how though!

9:07 *Comment From Erum. From a self-confessed Humsafarite as not a day has gone by since the day the drama has ended that I have not seen favorite scenes over and over again or found new depth in ones I’d missed before and its that dynamic interaction between the layers you find in the story and some insight into yourself that all good drama induces us to do so a very grateful thank you for putting together something so fundamentally profound. *

9:10 Sarmad Khoosat. I am thoroughly overwhelmed, humbled and obliged by this massive and kind appreciation. I guess Humsafar now is more about the fans of Humsafar rather than the makers of it, jaaiye aap kay havalay kiya much love and gratitude.

On March 14, 2012, Herald asked her to hold a live blog where people could pose their questions about Humsafar. The blog has been edited for space, clarity and grammar.

9:38 Comment From Fiaz Mumtaz. What is your opinion about so much idealism and glamour in the dramas, and how will it affect the majority of audiences?

9:39 Momina Duraid. Hi Fiaz. There are different subjects that we deal with and we try to stay as close to reality as possible.

9:39 Comment From Mahine. Why did you completely change the ending of the drama?

9:41 Momina Duraid. The ending of the drama was changed for the screen but the soul of the end was the same as the novel. Sometimes the way things are written in the novel have to be enhanced to create more interest.

9:41 Comment From Maneezeh. Humsafar, unlike a lot of other dramas these days, has a single story, a linear narrative. Do you think this has played a part in it becoming so successful?

9:44 Momina Duraid. I think an emotional script with the right cast and a sensitive director is the success of the play. The production and cinematography also gave the play a high end look.

9:44 Comment From Saman. What do they think makes Humsafar so special and different other than the breath-taking chemistry between Asher and Khirad?

9:46 Momina Duraid. There is no chemistry unless there is a script to base the chemistry upon. Combined with the script and production the chemistry works wonders. I believe it’s the simplicity of the chemistry that made it so beautiful as there were emotions but no vulgarity.

9:47 Comment From John. Why is Sara Ajmal’s character performing yoga? Can you please shed some light how it belongs in the character.

9:49 Momina Duraid. The class that Sara belongs to is generally taking some kind of exercise programme. Yoga, pilates, cardio anything. This is a diet conscious and heath conscious class.

9:49 Comment From Saqlain. A fantastic job with all the characters of this drama. You and your team deserve all the accolade. Do you think the social evils portrayed in the drama are actually a part of many households in Pakistan?

9:51 Momina Duraid. Yes I do believe that these social evils are a part of many households. Many of us hurt our loved ones to save our own egos.

9:51 Comment From Sam. The drama is a perfect example of patriarchal attitudes in our society. Till the very end the female lead spent time crying and asking for her husband’s largess. It would have been better if you showed a female lead with spine and character (and by character I don’t mean a ‘satti sawatri’). Do you think this affects how young women view themselves?

9:54 Momina Duraid. The novel never showed Khirad standing up to her mother-in-law or husband but we did show that she finally stands up for her rights and is a powerful mother. Of course all changes were done by the writer herself after discussions.

9:55 Comment From Sam. How is she a powerful mother? I am sure we have lots of powerful mothers like this who think its okay to be treated badly by their husbands and mother in laws as “Allah us ka ajar un ko de ga”.

9:57 Momina Duraid. Well I feel she was a powerful mother as she was not willing to apologise to her husband even when she got to know that he will accept her if she does.

9:59 Comment From Fahad. Sarmad told us that it was your idea to pair up Mahira and Fawad? How did you come up with this pair?

10:00 Momina Duraid. Well that is what I do every day. I thought they have never been paired before and would look good together.

10:01 Comment From John. I really like how Pakistan’s so-called liberal elite hide their biases and bigotry.

10:01 Momina Duraid. Well it feels good to expose some of them.

10:01 Comment From Asad. Mohabbat, Iltijah, Guftaguh. These were words commonly used in the drama. If the rest of us don’t talk like this then why is your script like this?

10:02 Momina Duraid. We do try and make the language as simple to understand as possible.

10:02 Comment From Tooba Akhtar. The story line wasn’t entirely unique nor was the ending. While it has been said by the team before that the focus on love was what connected the audiences to the drama, what else do you think did it?

10:04 Momina Duraid. I think all stories have been told several times. It’s how it is told what really matters. The way the script linked the emotions was what made the story beautiful.

10:12 Comment From zka. Was there any specific reason why most of the Farida/Khirad/Ashar scenes were shot in Mirpur Khas? Was it to get the most out of the actors in terms of emotions, without any distractions? It was a beautiful house but there are lots of houses in Karachi.

10:14 Momina Duraid. Well I wanted it to be a new house that had not been shot before as the location was to become a character in the play. Moreover the house was exactly what we wanted

10:14 Comment From Mahine. I know blood is thicker than water but how is it that Asher so easily forgave his mother who destroyed his marriage and wished so much ill on his wife and daughter?

10:16 Momina Duraid. The mother had lost her mind and there is a lesson here. We should not let our dear ones stray away from the right path but we should not throw them away when they need us the most.

10:20 Comment From Ahsan. Do you think there could have been a message that could have been delivered differently from Sara’s role?

10:21 Momina Duraid. Well yes in every story there are a hundred ways to give a message. Here we wanted to show that running after something that has never been yours can have deadly consequences.

10:21 Comment From Rahim. The drama explores clichéd mills and boons themes, how did it work for mass audiences and did you expect it to?

10:23 Momina Duraid. Well I feel we are all emotional beings and human emotions presented sensitively will always be successful.

10:23 Comment From Khurram. Why is your writer always from popular fiction? Why not use Intizaar Hussain, Abdullah Hussain, Mansha Yad etc? Are they more expensive with less rate of return? I have all the respect for popular fiction writers. They are fun but with a cliché of subjects & emotion. And, now all TV channels are full of it. Where is the education/awareness part which was once trait of our Drama?

10:26 Momina Duraid. Got it. You are right in a way. There are certain subjects that are important but do not have a mass appeal. We generally try to cover such subjects in tele-films so that even if they do not get great ratings they get the message across.

10:27 Comment From Sarmad. I saw the aged male fraternity watching a Pakistani drama so fondly after a very very long time, and by fondly I mean waking up till 1 to watch the repeat telecast due to load shedding. Kudos to the writer, I believe it was more due to the script and its association with our own language: URDU! Was there any emphasis on the language particularly?

10:28 Momina Duraid. God is great

10:28 Momina Duraid. Our language is indeed beautiful and expressive.

10:28 Comment From Arisha G. If you had the liberty to make a drastic change to any aspect of the novel’s interpretation, what would you have taken out or shown differently? Thanks.

10:31 Momina Duraid. I would give an insight into Atiqa’s background as to what insecurities did she have to react like this.

10:31 Comment From Guest. How would you respond to the criticism of Humsafar that it reinforced stereotypes albeit in the upper middle class?

10:33 Momina Duraid. Well aren’t all characters in a way stereotype? I do not believe in stereotypes. If it attracted so many then it must have had something new to offer.

10:33 Comment From Guest. Who chose the soundtrack for Humsafar? And why this particular Naseer Turabi ghazal that was earlier sung by Abida Parveen? Were there other ghazals that were taken into consideration?

10:35 Momina Duraid. Actually I was looking through the internet for lyrics with the word Humsafar in Sufi poetry and suddenly this track came up. I listened to it and it was exactly what our characters were. So I discussed it with Sarmad and he also loved it.

10:36 Comment From Adil. Most impressive thing about the play was how each character found a way to repent in the end. I was wondering how would you deal with Ashar’s mother after all this truth-explosion but making her mentally ill was really a surprise. She could have been sent to the UK in the same way most dramas deal with “redundant” characters. Was this also a part of original story?

10:38 Momina Duraid. Well some of the endings were smoothened for the screen and Farhat did those changes herself after being convinced. She is a very intelligent person and it was easy for her to learn the requirements of the screen.

10:40 Momina Duraid. Well thank you. It’s an honour to be able to entertain all of you.

On February 21, 2012, Herald asked the former Prosecutor General to hold a live blog where people could pose their questions about military trials. Below is the unedited version of the discussion.

7:55 Comment From Ayesha Salmaan. Military courts for civilians have been declared as unconstitutional under a democratic rule – do you think there is any chance, given the uncertain nature of Pakistan that military courts could be used to try civilians under a democratic rule again?

8:07 Farooq Adam Khan. There appears to be a basic misunderstanding in using the words “military courts” to describe all courts functioning with military officers presiding. As correctly stated the establishment of military courts for trial of civilians charged with some specified offences have been held to be unconstitutional. These military courts had been set up by the Government of Pakistan as authorized by the Pakistan Armed Forces (Acting in aid of the Civil Power) Ordinance, 1998. Military courts have also been established whenever the civil democratic process was overthrown and Martial Law Regime was enforced.

However, whenever the civil dispensation is overthrown “military courts” have been normally set up under a notification/ordinance to do that which the SC [Supreme Court] had declared “unconstitutional”. The only real, legitimate and lawfully convened military courts are those which function under the Pakistan Army Act, and corresponding Navy and PAF Acts.

They have jurisdiction over those who serve in the Armed Forces only. However, in certain cases civilians can be brought into the ambit of the jurisdiction of military law.

The question of civilians being tried by military courts under “democratic rule” in the future is a question open to speculation due to the nature and course of the prevalent and non-predictability of the political circumstances in [the] country.

8:07 Comment From Najam. I remember reading somewhere that our constitution give right to fair trial to every citizen of the country, then why this army act, or some of its provisions, which are in direct conflict with fundamental rights guaranteed by the constitution still exist. Can’t our supreme court take suo moto on such matters?

8:14 Farooq Adam Khan. The Army Act is [a] necessary document. Every civilized nation in the world [sh]ould have laws governing the Armed Forces. This is unquestionably an absolute necessity and cannot be dispensed with. Even [in] the 1973 Constitution there is [a] special provision for laws relating to members of [the] Armed Forces for the purpose of ensuring the proper discharge of their duties or the maintenance of discipline.

8:14 Comment From Hamza. What role, if any have the military trials of civilians played in undermining civilian supremacy in Pakistan?

8:18 Farooq Adam Khan. Civilians do not come under the Army Act for the purposes of trial or any other process unless they are brought within the ambit of the jurisdiction of the Army Act.

8:18 Comment From Maleeha. Reading your short CV at the Herald page, I was wondering if it is all right with you after all these years to discuss the details of the Attock Consipracy Case in which you were tried.

8:23 Farooq Adam Khan. I would love to discuss it but that would require [a] special addition of herald magazine. However, to answer, the spirit behind your question my greatest regret is the fact that I failed to do what I still think was necessary at the time. Even now I have great memories of the most difficult and trying days of my life.

8:23 Comment From Hamza. What exactly is the purpose of the “military court” in any set-up, and what is its jurisdiction limited to in other democracies in the world? Is there any other country in the world where military courts are part of the judicial process legitimately and what is the argument used to justify their existence?

8:37 Farooq Adam Khan. The Military Court which is specifically established for the enforcement of the Military Law in respect of those subject to Military Law cannot be seriously questioned. However, other courts established under special laws which are manned by Military Officers are done due to special circumstances which require special major. I have undergone a trial by court martial and I have never said at any time that I have been unjustly dealt with. I have also appeared in a number of cases before a Military Court established under Martial Law regulations and, at the risk of being censured by my present peers, I can honestly say that process procedure intelligence and honestly of the presiding officers was far superior to those conditions prevailing in the civilian courts then and even now. It is a fact that most litigant preferred to have their cases processed by Military Courts. Pakistan is not the only country in the world which has had military courts trying civilians. This is a normal happening where the circumstances dictate such a step to be taken.

8:37 Comment From Najam. Does our constitution allow to have two different forums for criminal trial, one for civilians and other for military men? If yes, then what about concept of equality before the law?

8:42 Farooq Adam Khan. The Constitution specially provides the trial of military personnel by military courts. Furthermore the Constitution of 1973 ousts the jurisdiction of the High Court in interfering with the decisions or actions of Military Courts when acting in accordance with law. The question of equality does not arise. When civilians are accused of civil/criminal offences not involving the Armed Forces, [they] are not liable to be tried by Military Courts (properly called Court Martial).

8:43 Comment From N. J. Why do you think successive governments have failed to reform the police department that could help in a speedy trial? Is it for political purposes or just negligence?

8:44 Farooq Adam Khan. Short answer to N.J… It suits our present democratic order to have criminal cases pending eternity

8:45 Comment From Agha K. What role did the Supreme Court have in the first place in the setting up of military courts?

8:47 Farooq Adam Khan. In 1998 the full bench of Supreme Court of Pakistan held the establishment of Military Court for trial of civilians as unconstitutional and without lawful authority. (1999 SCMR 569).

8:48 Comment From Haider Naqvi. While historically the military is projected as a fair/disciplined organization, undoubtedly by military inclined stakeholders, fair criticisms of the military’s apparent ‘objectivity’ have also emerged. Therefore, should the military courts continue to operate as independent judicial units, even in cases involving uniformed men, without any civilian involvement?

8:55 Farooq Adam Khan. It is unfortunate in the extreme that the reputation of the men in uniform has been besmirched to such an extent in the last few years that they have very little credibility in their impartiality, honestly and ability. But this deterioration is not exclusively relevant to the members of the Armed Forces. The whole nation is contaminated. No institution stands out as a beacon of light today. In my opinion no difference whatsoever can be made by enabling a man in a three piece suit to sit beside a decorated and probably honest military officer.

8:55 Comment From Muhammad Awais. What is the reason behind Military courts activism?

8:59 Farooq Adam Khan. When there is no military court in the land today, what “activism” could they possibly be accused of. In fact I wish the Arm[ed] Forces would be less passive and resort to “activism”.

9:00 Comment From Muhammad Shehzad. Military courts are not good for the people of Pakistan. What do you think?

9:01 Farooq Adam Khan. I disagree

9:02 Comment From S. Raza Ali. Please elaborate!!

9:05 Farooq Adam Khan. The People of Pakistan will welcome with both hands anybody who will ensure speedy, efficient and easily available justice to all and not only to the few people who have enriched themselves by questionable means.

9:07 Farooq Adam Khan. Thank you for taking part in this discussion. I hope most of your concerns were answered.